V8 Exocet #134, Manhattan KS

[kiwicanfly]

I had something happen when building that made me think that the balance bars don't actually do anything in the case of a total failure of one end. It not how they advertise it!

Luckily never experienced it in a driving situation.

Makes me wonder if there's a better way.

Is yours Wilwood?

[dietcoke]

A prop valve just adjusts the % of force applied to front vs rear. It won't do anything in the event of a pressure loss in the system (leak/break etc). You'd need a dual master cyl for that, which seperates the front and rear brake channel into two redundant systems.

[kiwicanfly]

Just looked up the Wilwood pedal box details and found this line

"3. With two independent hydraulic systems, should one master cylinder fail, the other system may remain functional."

I cant remember what I was doing but at the time I had a 'failure', at the time I doubted the above was true, I reckon the keyword here is "MAY".

So yours is a valve not a bar? Is there a system that is guaranteed to work in such a situation?

[dietcoke]

I don't have a clue what your talking about. A miata booster only has one master cylinder on it. You're talking about something completely different.

[papabear]

Oct 3, 2016 23:44:09 GMT kiwicanfly said:

Just looked up the Wilwood pedal box details and found this line

"3. With two independent hydraulic systems, should one master cylinder fail, the other system may remain functional."

I cant remember what I was doing but at the time I had a 'failure', at the time I doubted the above was true, I reckon the keyword here is "MAY".

So yours is a valve not a bar? Is there a system that is guaranteed to work in such a situation?

Are you running a aftermarket pedal box with independent front and rear master cylinders? Wilwood is never going to say in it's manual your going to have guaranteed ability to stop but with two master cylinders you would need a pretty spectacular failure to lose it all. With a standard tandem master cylinder the separation between front and rear are inline with each other. And even though the pedal goes to the floor you will get some braking from the circuit that is not leaking.

[kiwicanfly]

To be honest I am not overly worried about this issue it was just something that I was wondering about when I read dietcoke s post about losing all braking due to a hose failure.

When I first installed the Willwood twin cylinder/balance bar setup I believed it would give full braking on one circuit if the other failed, by failed I mean completely.

Then when building I began to doubt the hype and practically I can see no way that this type of setup can work under such circumstances.

However what intrigues me more is that the authorities dont seem to have picked up on it. In NZ the rules require that the two circuits are fully independent but they are clearly not, one needs the other even if only to give the balance bar a fulcrum point.

I suppose I was wondering if there is a better system that would work in such circumstances. If there were would I fit? Probably not (!) And hopefully I will never get to a point where I wished I had

[dietcoke]

I have stock pedals and a stock master, I have no idea why you seem to think I have a floor pedal box

[kiwicanfly]

Yeah sorry, I was not sure how the standard Exocet system worked, was intrigued about whether there was a solution out there to stop this rare but potentially catastrophic problem.

[einy]

The stock Miata master cylinder is dual circuit, both fed by one reservoir. US spec cars have been this way since the 70's by DOT mandate.

[dietcoke]

A dual circuit single is entirely different then two single circuits with a double master.

[dietcoke]

ARC'd the RR brake line on these terminals, which I should have booted previously. Here's the fix. New brake line should be here tomorrow, get it on and bleed the system to prepare for an out of region autoX sunday. Also ordered a set of v8R pro series uppers for the rear, to match my pro series fronts. That just leaves the front and rear lower control arms to change to ball joints. I'm hoping I can afford some after the holiday with tax return money, really want to go to the X-lite billet lowers. We shall see.

[dietcoke]

Motor #2 is officially toast. Haven't confirmed why yet, but the pan and filter were full of glitter, so it's going back to the builder (sadface) - under warranty. At least racing season is over.

On another note: Roto jointed rear uca's are installed from V8R, and the reason why you *need* to have them for your suspension to work properly coming later today.

[phocup]

Not sure if you're aware but your old photos are broken. Anyway to fix them ?

I'm planning an LFX swap and it would be helpful to see your photos.

[dietcoke]

They're still on my facebook page, but they got merged to another page, so the url references changed. Look there if you need the older ones

[phocup]

Thanks, I just browsed your FB page but unfortunately couldn't find what I'm looking for. The LFX ( and I believe LSX ) kit comes with this 'framerail' with a crossbar to mount the tranny to. Wondering if you have a picture of that mount on your Exo.