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Post by huggy on May 19, 2013 20:44:18 GMT
Another random job that needed to be done at some point. Based on @markharnett's solution, I cobbled together the above to bead the cooling pipes. (I don't have a welder yet and given this was a one off job, didn't want to sacrifice a set of grips). The end result. Far from perfect but hopefully better than nothing. ... Next, looked into bump steer however not going to do anything with this. The simple thing to do here is finish the car and get the 4 wheel alignment done.
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Post by kiwicanfly on May 20, 2013 0:32:13 GMT
Ah yes bump steer, that drove me mad - how long did you spend on it? I totally agree that the tie rod spacers are required it was the only way I got mine under control but I did not need quite as much packing 'only' 12mm. Without the spacers I found that I could shorten the tie rods by changing the position of the steering arms but that sacrificed the Ackerman Angle so I abandoned that approach. However rereading your post there appears to be a difference in that I was suffering Toe Out where you are showing Toe In which indicates the Tie Rods are too short. I was measuring across both wheels with a distance between measuring points of 570mm and got my figures down to under 2mm total variation at any point in suspension travel. Have a look at the following links from the organization who are responsible for our certification. I should have posted these earlier. lvvta.co.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_04-2010_Bump-steer_Measurement_Background_Information.pdflvvta.co.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_05-2010_Bump-steer_Swing-check_Procedure.pdfAlso have a look at this link. www.circletrack.com/chassistech/ctrp_1001_bump_steer_explained/viewall.htmlThey show that the tie rods and lower arm are not supposed to be parallel but in all linkages (upper, lower, tie) need to converge at the instantaneous centre, a projected point somewhere in space. I am well interested on your findings on this one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2013 9:58:01 GMT
Please also note you are both using different uprights, the RTR versus the RD ones are going to throw your calculations off greatly.
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Post by kiwicanfly on May 20, 2013 10:13:34 GMT
Do the steering arm connection points on the RTR uprights sit outside the line between the upper and lower ball joints like the RD ones?
If not the extensions would not need to be as radical as mine or possible not even be required.
The bump steer should still be minimal, just how to go about it differs.
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Post by airforceone on May 20, 2013 10:54:37 GMT
This is an interesting topic.
Must admit I haven't used any spacers on the steering rack or anywhere else. It strange to see the variances in setting up individual cars. I've had the normal tracking done but everything else is as I bolted it all together and it drives well. I'm well aware of what bump steer is along with anyone else that has driven a Peugeot.
As Steve has said, diference between the RTR and the RD uprights will make a big difetence. Personally I would wait until the car is on the road before tweaking anything like this as you are only going by others experience when yours could be completely different.
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Post by huggy on May 20, 2013 20:45:21 GMT
Yep. Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 8:48:25 GMT
Another random job that needed to be done at some point. Based on @markharnett's solution, I cobbled together the above to bead the cooling pipes. (I don't have a welder yet and given this was a one off job, didn't want to sacrifice a set of grips). The end result. Far from perfect but hopefully better than nothing. Just a quick update on this. I found the below tool on eBay. Yet to try it, but the videos on this guys website make the beading tool look very good. Managed to pick mine up for £49.50, which isn't bad when alternatives are several hundred £'s! Beading Tooledit: sorry about the link. Did it at work and it thinks I am in the US. This guy is based in the UK.
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Post by huggy on May 21, 2013 22:06:45 GMT
Nice find. As you say, all the other tools are silly money for an occasional home user.
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Post by Paul (madeye) on May 22, 2013 6:46:01 GMT
hat tool is sound, the guy has some good ideas
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Post by kiwicanfly on May 23, 2013 2:21:19 GMT
Make the distances between measuring points 573mm this equates to 10mm = 1 deg. (Yep all that trigonometry at school finally found a use. Also there will be camber changes but the key measurement is to remain parallel during suspension changes not staying the same width. My final measurement before making the spacers was under 1mm at all points of suspension travel (found my graph which I had lost the other day). Have to confess I have not measured again after making the spacers - can't face it just yet
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Post by roadtrackrace on May 25, 2013 8:36:52 GMT
We have now built several Rockets in house and none of them have suffered from bump steer. The steering racks have been fitted without spacers and the steering rack/trackrod end fitment has not required any form of extension.
What is not being taken into account here is how little the suspension actually travels during road use.
The standard set up may not be technically perfect but even hitting rumble strips at 100mph on a trackday corner doesn't induce any fight in the steering so my suggestion is finish it, get it correctly 4 wheel aligned and then drive it. You will find it is a joy to drive without any further tweaking.
RTR
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Post by huggy on May 25, 2013 13:47:05 GMT
Cheers Paul. Following our conversation, I indeed already removed the spacers and am back to the standard set-up. Thanks for the advice.
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Post by huggy on May 25, 2013 14:29:14 GMT
Question: has anyone used the Acewell 5859 please? I see 7859's have been used on some, but haven't seen a build with the '5' so far.
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Post by airforceone on May 25, 2013 14:33:15 GMT
Huggy
As I said earlier, don't tweak anything until you have driven it.
Just been out in the glorious sunshine, very rare for Glasgow. Done a quick 50 mile round trip covering some nice twisty back roads and motorway and it handled beautifully.
Up to the speed limit and just beyond on the motorway and it was rock solid, no shaking or darting about.
I just bolted the steering rack onto the frame well over a year ago and haven't touched it since, Fantastic.
Ned
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Post by huggy on May 25, 2013 20:18:19 GMT
Cheers Ned, mine's back that way now :-) Pity summer will be long gone before I get anywhere near completion. Oh well, hope to be on the road this time next year.
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