tR1ke build, in the Netherlands #2

[edwinwl]

Tr1ke is fixed.
Carburateurs cleaning did the job.


Sent from my GT-S5660 using proboards

[andybaird]

Hi

Good to see you have found the problem. Hope you have trouble free fun from now on.

Andy

[edwinwl]

Did some very nice driving around.

King of the road. Only and lot's of positive reactions.

Issues left to optimize:
1. The welded coupling of the steering has some free play. Assume it became to hot during welding.
2. Aligning the car. Will do some tests with negative / positive camber.
3. Throttle response can be more direct. Ordered parts.
4. Rear suspension is too low. Car is leaning backwards. Not sure what to do. Higher spring + shock absorber or just a progressive spring.

BUT: I am very happy with my Tr1ke.....

Sent from my GT-S5660 using proboards

[edwinwl]

Free play of the steering minimized.

Driving with my friend Paul.

[vtR1k]

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using proboards

[edwinwl]

Done: 1. The welded coupling of the steering has some free play. Assume it became to hot during welding.
A bold fixing both ends came a bit loose. Fixed it with locking glue and a nylock nut.
Done: 3. Throttle response can be more direct. Ordered parts.
Modified existing trottle cable fixing point and made two spare ones. (you never know...)
Also made a second cable attached to a spring, that closes the trottle.

Issues left to optimize:
2. Aligning the car. Will do some tests with negative / positive camber. Only after rear suspension is fixed.

4. Rear suspension is too low. Car is leaning backwards. Not sure what to do. Tail riser kit, higher spring + shock absorber or just a progressive spring.
Hyperpro headoffice is almost next door. (http://www.hyperpro.com)
Will see (and share)

[vtR1k]

I think you should calculate how much weight the spring had to handle on a motorcycle and compare it with the actual situation. Then, just mount a stiffer spring... It worked fine at mine, although I first raised it. It kept the ground clearance, but with the original spring, it hitted the bump stop at the least bump in the road, so I calculated and ended up with a spring about 3 times as stiff.
This one is really good and also still very comfortable.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using proboards

[erik]

I think the best choice is to outsource this to Hyperpro. Personally I am not in favour experimenting with my life to find out what is a NoGo area. I think you will enjoy a professional service.
Perhaps you need to take into account the hard seats which do matter for your comfort and choice of shocks as well.

[edwinwl]

@rick: I know you have a 200 (kg/cm?) spring. Still have the old spring that was originally installed on my GS motorbike. It says 200/130 but is too high to install on the original damper.

I am not hitting the rubber bump stop. Like my GS I want to be able to do both:
1. "Scraping around"
2. Comfortable Dutch polderland or highway cruising.

erik: The seats are much more comfy as their appearance suggest.
Also the seats are placed right in the middle of the car. Put holes and speed bumps are absorbed easily by the suspension.
Passengers are supprised by the relatively good comfort.

It is the leaning backwards that gives a nervous behavior at higher speed. At higher speeds the car gets less stable. The car gives the feeling it would like to take off. Not dangerously, but a bit annoying.


Will ask advise from people of Hyperpro and share my findings.

To be continued...

[slugshot]

Hi Edwin, I look forward to your findings at Hyperpro.
one of my winter mods would be to make an adjustable bottom tie rod to increase the rear ride height but if Hyperpro can make a shock with an adjustable length, stronger spring and more damping control I would be very interested in having one.

[vtR1k]

Sept 26, 2012 16:26:42 GMT erik said:

...experimenting with my life...

Well, I didn't guess anything. Spring and ground clearance are first reasoned and finally calculated. Calculations matched the final situation.

This might be the reason my tR1ke handles very good at speeds above 200 km/h. Also, I keep ahead of fast motorcycles at bendy roads. Cars are no match for me at all. Suspension also keeps up with quick repeating bumps and bad road surfaces.

Maybe hyperpro has ideas, but spring stifness can not be chosen. If you ask a spring for a R1, they only have 1 replacement. I already tried to find out and every time I ended up with a car spring.

It is simple: more weight to carry, spring stiffness higher.

Maybe Intrax (dutch shock manufacturer) can tell more. I think he may see this as a challenge, but don't be surprised about the price. Ask for Henk Thuis.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using proboards

[erik]

Seems to me quite obvious we don't need an R1 spring replacement, we need a custom made one. A replacement version would notwork well.

perhaps a simiar shock type as in the front (same manufacturor) would be an option). I haven't paid any attention to it yet.

[edwinwl]

Found this site: www.racetech.com/

Race tech specifications
Yamaha R1 1998-2001
Standard weight: bike + driver = 205 + 50 ! = 255 kg
Standard rear spring: 8 kg/mm

Using racetech calculator for R1 bike, using mass of my tR1ke:
Standard weight + 1 person = 360 + 90 = 450 kg
Using the calculator spring should be: 9 kg/mm

Standard weight + 2 persons = 360 + 180 = 540 kg
So rear spring should be around 11,5 kg/mm


My common sense:
Yamaha R1: Assumed static weight distribution is 50-50.
1 person: So rear suspension gets about 130 kg of weight.

Empty tR1ke, rear wheel load (measured) is about 150 kg.
adding 1 person: So rear wheel load gets about 200 kg.
adding 2 person: So rear wheel load of about 250 kg of mass.

new spring rate / new load = old spring rate / old load
new spring rate = (old spring rate / old load) x new load = (8/130) x 250 = about 15,5 kg/mm


Having written down all this. My most concern is the car is not leveled out.
Floor height front: 16 cm
Floor height rear: 13 cm
At higher speeds the tR1ke is getting lighter. More or less like a plane. Not dramatic but more nervous.


Please suggestions!


BTW at Hyperpro no technical guys were available yesterday and today. They had an exhibition somewhere.

[edwinwl]

www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/514592.html

For the fuel consumption registration...

[edwinwl]

Today was rear suspension day.

Weight and height of the tR1ke.
( Used my bathroom scale with indicating accuracy of about 5%. )
Empty tR1ke:
Left front 108,4 kg & 16 cm
Right front 106,4 kg & 16 cm
Rear 148,4 kg & 13 cm
Total mass of 363 kg

Tr1ke (363 kg) + driver (= 89 kg)
Left front 146,4 kg & 12,5 cm
Right front 115,0 kg & 13 cm
Rear 190,6 kg (= calculated) & 10,5 cm

So almost 50% of driver mass is directed to the rear wheel.
So tR1ke + driver + passenger = generates about 235 kg rear wheel mass.

Went to Hyperpro.
My stock rear shock had already an aftermarket racing spring and adjustment mechanism (both race tech).
This spring was almost right but max adjustment was too low for tR1ke application.

We replaced the spring by a Hyperpro progressive version. The results is... very good.



Spring type: 549
The length of the spring has to be measured when the shock (= damper + spring) is removed from the tR1ke. In my case, with race tech adjustment mechanism, 147 mm.

Will make new height measurements.