|
|
Post by valleyslad on Feb 19, 2018 15:04:00 GMT
Hi, sorry to jump in on this. I'm considering my first kit car build, as a project for me and my father to do together. He's been a mechanic all his life, but has just retired, and I, well I have a garage.
Both my father and I, love the aesthetics of the original rocket, and would love to build one. We know that there is another company out there that offers these kits, but from what I've read on this forum their QC is lacking. Ideally then, we would like to buy it from a company that we trust, and that is supported by what seems to be this great community, as we think we'll need all the support we can get.
Please could you give us an update on the progress of this project.
|
|
|
|
Post by casesensitive on Feb 28, 2018 21:51:56 GMT
Is there a reason you don't using brazing instead of welding? I don't know much about the subject but I know Ariel use brazing instead of welding on both the Atom and Nomad chassis. They suggest they prefer it due to lower temperatures and less distortion? Could brazing be an option? God no. Brazing is essentially melting filler material into and around a joint without actually fusing with the base material, it's MUCH less strong. Yes, it causes less distortion than welding, but so does mastic or surgu. I'm not saying its silly putty weak, but its definitely weaker. Jodi explains it pretty well in this video: |
|
|
|
Post by carlyd on Mar 1, 2018 9:03:14 GMT
Is there a reason you don't using brazing instead of welding? I don't know much about the subject but I know Ariel use brazing instead of welding on both the Atom and Nomad chassis. They suggest they prefer it due to lower temperatures and less distortion? Could brazing be an option? God no. Brazing is essentially melting filler material into and around a joint without actually fusing with the base material, it's MUCH less strong. Yes, it causes less distortion than welding, but so does mastic or surgu. I'm not saying its silly putty weak, but its definitely weaker. All of the research that I have done (only online) suggests brazing is just as strong as welding. It must be strong enough for a chassis, if it weren't all of the ariel atoms and nomads would fall apart as they are all brazed and not welded. |
|
|
|
Post by casesensitive on Mar 1, 2018 10:16:23 GMT
I only have a couple of welding courses to go on, and we only did a bit of metallurgical theory, but brazing is definitely not as strong as welding, no question of it, it can't be, by definition.
Whether it's strong enough is the question, and it just might be, I'm sure Ariel wouldn't do it if it weren't. Whether a small operation could make it strong enough, that's the issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobmick on Mar 27, 2018 9:55:21 GMT
Hi, sorry to jump in on this. I'm considering my first kit car build, as a project for me and my father to do together. He's been a mechanic all his life, but has just retired, and I, well I have a garage. Both my father and I, love the aesthetics of the original rocket, and would love to build one. We know that there is another company out there that offers these kits, but from what I've read on this forum their QC is lacking. Ideally then, we would like to buy it from a company that we trust, and that is supported by what seems to be this great community, as we think we'll need all the support we can get. Please could you give us an update on the progress of this project. The other company you elude to have made over 250 Rocket chassis over the last 10 years. There may well have been issues in the past but QC is certainly no longer an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by casesensitive on Mar 27, 2018 13:53:09 GMT
The other company you elude to have made over 250 Rocket chassis over the last 10 years. There may well have been issues in the past but QC is certainly no longer an issue. My kit by 'that company' was constructed in late 2013, and while the welding looks fantastically neat it has plenty of issues, one recently discovered one is unforgiveable, causing me to have to ruin my €750 powdercoat. . - I've had to hack off the gearbox mount because it's 40mm too far forward, found porosity and lack of fusion at the base of those welds, very worrying
- The £20 Auxiliary tensioner bracket they supplied is a £5 piece of folded 8mm steel
- The brake mounting bracket they supplied is not 90*, causing my pads to foul at one edge
- their £30 accelerator pedal might be the fabrication equivalent of trolling
Having a look a bobmick's recent posts, there's, let's say, a common theme to them.. |
|
|
|
Post by skyquake on Mar 27, 2018 18:18:59 GMT
This isn't the first example of similar posting behavior on this forum, is it? In fact, I'd go as far to suggest that it is obvious to anyone who reads this forum regularly that whenever the topic of this particular company's QC is raised, there's always a newbie member of some description ready to defend them, and vehemently argue with anyone who says anything to the contrary. Perhaps bobmick can provide some evidence to back up his assertive opinion? |
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Mar 27, 2018 22:54:27 GMT
I have seen a few of the other companies chassis very recently myself and would have to agree the welding is certainly of a high standard the kits look really well put together. I know many people had problems before maybe there will be problems again, probably never know as there are no build diaries allowed on this forum.
|
|
|
|
Post by carlostheoptimistic on Mar 28, 2018 11:42:38 GMT
Maybe there are other forums for those build diaries  |
|
|
|
Post by bobmick on Mar 29, 2018 7:15:50 GMT
The other company you elude to have made over 250 Rocket chassis over the last 10 years. There may well have been issues in the past but QC is certainly no longer an issue. My kit by 'that company' was constructed in late 2013, and while the welding looks fantastically neat it has plenty of issues, one recently discovered one is unforgiveable, causing me to have to ruin my €750 powdercoat. . - I've had to hack off the gearbox mount because it's 40mm too far forward, found porosity and lack of fusion at the base of those welds, very worrying
- The £20 Auxiliary tensioner bracket they supplied is a £5 piece of folded 8mm steel
- The brake mounting bracket they supplied is not 90*, causing my pads to foul at one edge
- their £30 accelerator pedal might be the fabrication equivalent of trolling
Having a look a bobmick 's recent posts, there's, let's say, a common theme to them.. A lot can change in 5 years. Rogue Motorsport have successfully campaigned these chassis on the race track for four seasons with 200bhp 2zz Toyota engines gaining class wins most years. Nothing has broken or fallen off of any of these chassis which stands as testament to current quality. Steel front uprights have now been superseded by high quality alloy items so no brake issues now. £20 Aux tensioner bracket is laser cut and press brake folded. Macdonalds sell a 25p Big Mac for £2.99. It's not immoral to make a profit thus paying rent, rates, electricity, insurance and wages. |
|
|
|
Post by bobmick on Mar 29, 2018 7:35:50 GMT
This isn't the first example of similar posting behavior on this forum, is it? In fact, I'd go as far to suggest that it is obvious to anyone who reads this forum regularly that whenever the topic of this particular company's QC is raised, there's always a newbie member of some description ready to defend them, and vehemently argue with anyone who says anything to the contrary. Perhaps bobmick can provide some evidence to back up his assertive opinion? When a company is continually lambasted for issues that happened several years ago it's only natural that from time to time they are defended. There are dozens of people that use this forum who enjoy the products made by RTR/ESC. Just bear in mind that every single Rocket kit produced since 2009 has been manufactured by either RTR or ESC. It's a brilliant product, designed by Stuart Mills and still very popular. All the evidence you need. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwicanfly on Mar 29, 2018 9:23:33 GMT
Maybe there are other forums for those build diaries No maybe about it, there is at least one other forum and, within it, at least two mentions of misaligned rear wishbone mounts. |
|
|
|
Post by carlyd on Mar 29, 2018 11:46:02 GMT
Steel front uprights have now been superseded by high quality alloy items so no brake issues now. Many Rocket builds from the RTR days used the alloy uprights (which are not manufactured by RTR) mine did and I know a lot of people had issues with them, but I didn't have any at all. I had the very last Rocket to come out of RTR just before they went under and I have to say I had no issues with my build at all. Mine was the Race Spec chassis (as used by Rogue motorsport) so maybe there is a difference?? I don't know. The suspension all lined up correctly, everything went together with no problems at all. My experience with RTR was a positive one overall. It is a shame that they don't produce Rocket 2 under licence from Stuart as we would get to see the builds right here.  |
|
|
|
Post by casesensitive on Mar 30, 2018 9:35:56 GMT
Yeah, questionable company formation practices and IP/trademark infringements aside, I think Rocket 2 being made by ESC rather than (currently) nobody would be better than the current situation; where you can't buy a legitimately licensed one, and use this forum. Ditto the Sonic, would-be manufacturers have come and go, but its been, what, 2 years since a new one of either was made?
There's always The Other Place, but digital footfall over there isn't anything like what it is here.
Hard to imagine that the non-Exocet traffic here will do anything but subside either, as people finish their builds and move on to driving them rather than building. Real shame.
|
|
|
|
Post by Stiggy on Apr 2, 2018 16:46:55 GMT
Yeah, questionable company formation practices and IP/trademark infringements aside, I think Rocket 2 being made by ESC rather than (currently) nobody would be better than the current situation; where you can't buy a legitimately licensed one, and use this forum. Ditto the Sonic, would-be manufacturers have come and go, but its been, what, 2 years since a new one of either was made? There's always The Other Place, but digital footfall over there isn't anything like what it is here. Hard to imagine that the non-Exocet traffic here will do anything but subside either, as people finish their builds and move on to driving them rather than building. Real shame. Not "ditto the Sonic" it's alive and well. See Equilibrium at Stoneleigh. No idea why people decide to become kit car manufacturers, buy a project and then give up. Its now happened loads of times. Weird. ESC are doing it at least and have no doubt come a long way since the mistakes that they made years ago.. |
|
