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Post by Fin on Mar 25, 2017 18:09:52 GMT
Sliced the spikes off the seat rails, and mounted the GRP seats to see how they looked/felt. Cable tied them to the chassis mounts and found we had the full range of adjustment, even with the seatbelt holder bracket still affixed. Width & height all seemed OK. Curious that there is much written about the rails been fitted with M8 8.8 and washers/spread-plates, yet the seat is just fibre-glassed on. Am I missing something? Luke pointed out that the top of the seat was close to the back of his head, even more so when wearing a helmet. Is this typical, or does it mean they need to tip back further?   Rivnutted and mounted the driver's footwell, passenger firewall and tunnel. Now just need to trace round the firewall edges and leave lips for them to rivnut inside the tunnel. Sounds easy, eh? |
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Post by Fin on Mar 26, 2017 16:04:05 GMT
Originally bought M4 hex bolts to do the floor, then thought about button/dome heads as the reduction in drag would obviously be significant! (OK, they'd maybe look better). Anyway, the size of the "screwhole" in the bolt is a tiny T10 or maybe a 2.5mm Allen key, which is not much to tighten the bolt, and easy to strip. Beginning the think hex heads with washers would tighten better. Were yours the same mawdo81?  |
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Post by p5curly on Mar 26, 2017 17:20:09 GMT
Are they Allen head ones or star ones
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Post by mawdo81 on Mar 26, 2017 17:55:48 GMT
Mine were a small hex, yes easy to strip. Want to change to torx ones but haven't looked yet. I know kiwicanfly sourced some from Poland... |
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Post by kiwicanfly on Mar 26, 2017 18:57:21 GMT
I found M4 allen heads very easy to damage with the key and also in damaging them it would wear the key making things worse, the ball end keys were the biggest culprit. I changed everything to torx head (or star) and had no such problems. I did some experiments and found I could rip the head off the torx without damaging the head or key. It comes own to the design in which the key is always contacting a face whereas allen heads contact on the corners. This is what I bought, I've ended up using well over 400 of them! A lot could have been shorter than 16mm long but it was easier to shorten them than extend them where there was an issue. www.tme.eu/en/details/b4x16_bn10649/bolts/bossard/3060955/#Also the flange under the head on the Torx is about 1mm bigger than the allen head which, although weighing more, gives better aerodynamics as it leads to a more laminar flow over the fastener, totally the real reason for selecting them  BTW you cannot use a torx key in an allen head, we'll if it does fit it is luck. |
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Post by mawdo81 on Mar 26, 2017 20:48:44 GMT
Fin if you want to save on postage I'll split a shipment with you. Need to count up but would want at least 100.
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Post by kiwicanfly on Mar 26, 2017 20:57:07 GMT
Need to count up but would want at least 100. You might be suprised, the number for the floor is clearly the largest however by the time you add bulkhead panels, centre tunnel fixing, electrical clips, engine cover hinges...... the list goes on. I bought 500 and i might have around 50 left. |
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Post by Fin on Mar 26, 2017 21:48:19 GMT
Are they Allen head ones or star ones Think they're Allen keys |
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Post by Fin on Mar 26, 2017 23:11:07 GMT
Mine were a small hex, yes easy to strip. Want to change to torx ones but haven't looked yet. I know kiwicanfly sourced some from Poland... I'm up for it. Bought 100 hex and 100 dome, but just want whatever is right. Neither hex or Torx feels absolutely snug, so will defer to the prevailing wisdom. |
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Post by Fin on Mar 26, 2017 23:27:10 GMT
I found M4 allen heads very easy to damage with the key and also in damaging them it would wear the key making things worse, the ball end keys were the biggest culprit. I changed everything to torx head (or star) and had no such problems. I did some experiments and found I could rip the head off the torx without damaging the head or key. It comes own to the design in which the key is always contacting a face whereas allen heads contact on the corners. This is what I bought, I've ended up using well over 400 of them! A lot could have been shorter than 16mm long but it was easier to shorten them than extend them where there was an issue. www.tme.eu/en/details/b4x16_bn10649/bolts/bossard/3060955/#Also the flange under the head on the Torx is about 1mm bigger than the allen head which, although weighing more, gives better aerodynamics as it leads to a more laminar flow over the fastener, totally the real reason for selecting them BTW you cannot use a torx key in an allen head, we'll if it does fit it is luck. Aargh, my hopes for a return to the 70's with a return to the Ground Effect of the Lotus/Saudia seem doomed to failure! Neither Torx or Allen feels 100% right, but they are all that I have that fits the orifice in question, but then again, I always was lucky. I spaced the floor at about 137, but have seen others running about 16 rivets lengthwise, so have already decided to decrease my centres, following the "I ain't standing on that" principle. In shock, I shall comb the chassis tomorrow to find 400+likely sites, but visions of Swiss cheese will predominate throughout. 400.....................? |
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Post by mawdo81 on Mar 27, 2017 8:28:19 GMT
Kiwi built a Rocket, so many more engine and other fitment and mounting issues (brackets) to solve than an Exocet...also he did some material analysis and the hole in the tube didn't do as much as you'd expect to weaken it, esp compared to the hole size for rivets, and that is before you take into account you're filling the hole back up.
It's on here somewhere but I haven't the time to do a search right now!
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Post by kiwicanfly on Mar 27, 2017 8:49:19 GMT
I have to admit I was suprised at the quantity used, I think I worked out between three and four hundred then king sized the order to 500.
Also shipping, whilst not a huge cost, had to be factored in for NZ, didn't want to pay twice due to being a few short.
I'd already bought quite few allen heads, as soon as I discovered the torx those were all replaced for the very reasons you discovered.
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Post by Fin on Mar 27, 2017 9:23:42 GMT
Kiwi built a Rocket, so many more engine and other fitment and mounting issues (brackets) to solve than an Exocet...also he did some material analysis and the hole in the tube didn't do as much as you'd expect to weaken it, esp compared to the hole size for rivets, and that is before you take into account you're filling the hole back up. It's on here somewhere but I haven't the time to do a search right now! I'd read the analysis on how drilling any hole naturally weakens the host structure, and it was interesting to see that that level of weakness remained relatively constant, and didn't increase exponentially as the hole diameter increased. |
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Post by Fin on Mar 27, 2017 9:49:10 GMT
I have to admit I was suprised at the quantity used, I think I worked out between three and four hundred then king sized the order to 500. Also shipping, whilst not a huge cost, had to be factored in for NZ, didn't want to pay twice due to being a few short. I'd already bought quite few allen heads, as soon as I discovered the torx those were all replaced for the very reasons you discovered. I checked back on the spec for mine, and they are 2.5mm Allen key. I might get better results on the open surface of the floors with their easy perpendicular access, rather than odd angles on the footwell/firewall. Might also invest in a better Allen key. That said, the same eBay supplier has these M4 x 16 |
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Post by Fin on Mar 27, 2017 9:51:03 GMT
Fin if you want to save on postage I'll split a shipment with you. Need to count up but would want at least 100. |
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