Team Pipe-Car - jmills' Chicago Build

[ImprobableConstruct]

Feb 24, 2015 3:29:52 GMT greg said:

Got an answer for #3.

Get 3/16 line with metric fittings. They are M10x1 thread pitch

I will add that you want "standard" flare.
The tag will read something like this:


Obviously this was for a 20" length.  Advance auto stocks sizes from 6" to 72" inch.  Make sure you have the correct thread and flare combo.  There are about 6 different combos for each size.

[einy]

If someone following this needs a 90 drill head, look for the Dewalt unit at Lowes or Home Depot (and likely others). Pretty robust little unit for ~ $30. Not something I'd count on lasting for years if used everyday, but good certainly enough for this type of work! You will have to use the 'special' hex drive bits, but still probably less than $50 even with a couple of those thrown in.

[jmills]

I've definitely been slacking on keeping this log up to date, fortunately I've been slacking less on the car. Thanks IC and others for the guidance on brake lines. I'm happy to say the brakes lines, prop valve and new calipers are all installed.

It's been a while, so first some catch up;


Suspension:

Installed Tein MonoFlex shocks on all corners, preserving ABS sensors. Probably need to order at least one set of softer springs, TBD. The Exocet is sitting about 7 inches off the ground right now on top of the wheel dollies, so definitely need to take some time to adjust these up a bit. Hopefully there is enough length adjustment to avoid the need for spacers. Ultimately I will have the cockpit dampening controller installed, really looking forward to playing with that on track.



Racing Beat rear bar is installed, front was repainted and will go on the car next week.







I really love this color, especially in the sun.

Steering:
Steering column and wheel are in - managed to lose the bolts for the clamps on the shaft. Does anyone know the size of these offhand?

I have a great looking momo wheel and horn button, only catch is the horn isn't wired so I'll have to sort that out since this wont be the highest visibility car on the road.

Replaced tie rod dust boots - best advice on removal, use a chisel to wedge just under the seal, then leverage against the tie rod to lift it up. I struggled with utility knives, screw drivers and other random tools before arriving on this, and it was effortless.







Brakes and lines:
For reference if anyone is tackling the same job, here are the pre-flared lengths I used, NOTE: this is an ABS car with a proportioning valve in the cockpit, because I've been on-track in the rain and am absolutely sold on ABS.

If anyone has questions on this install I'm more than happy to share my experience. I researched the hell out of this and learned a lot going through the process.

Brake booster to ABS unit - rear channel - 4'
Brake booster to ABS unit - front channel - 4'
ABS to drivers side caliper - 4'
ABS to passenger side caliper - 18"
ABS to proportioning valve - 71" I believe - the longest pre-flared line auto-zone had. I'll check when I'm back with the car.
Proportioning valve to rear distribution block - 4'
Rear subframe line from distribution block to driver side caliper - 40"

I'll take some detailed pics and post those later - sorry for the lack of pics. Here's a random one of the prop valve install.


Brake Tabs:
This is something I thought would be easy to quickly install, turned out to be the second time I wish I had a 90 degree drill adapter...

To install the brake tabs that hold the flex to solid line transition I had to remove the LCAs so I could drill into the bottom of the 1 3/4" tube to riven the tabs in place on either side. Actual installation; <5 min a side. suspension disassembly, MUCH MORE TIME. I strongly advise you mount these BEFORE mating the frame to the subframe. If anyone else had a clever way to do this, please chime in.

I may reach out to Kevin to advise they weld these tabs in, as a standard jig and a few quick sparks could save a lot of time in sourcing and attaching those &$@# tabs...

Fuel Tank:
Like many others I used some long bolts, large washers and a bunch of nuts to stand the tank ~2" off the mounts. The lines are run but not yet connected to the pump and fuel rail.

I'm going to retain the charcoal canister but relocate it to next to the tank itself and eliminate the third fuel vapor line. I'm running a megasquirt so the solenoid to vent the canister to the rail is useless anyways I'm pretty sure, if anyone has set their up otherwise please let me know, however the solenoid was venting to atmosphere on the car when I picked it up, I imagine not every being actually opened by the MS.







Cooling:
My girlfriend took point on installing a coolant reroute from BeGi while I was fighting brake lines. Pretty straightforward parts wise, but the instructions leave something to be desired. 

Next step is to get the radiator installed and the rest of the coolant hoses hooked up, get the intercooler and pipes mounted then start plugging things in and try to start it... Its getting close to key on!

What are people using to mount the bodywork? I'm getting closer to that point and need to choose a latch / closure method. Any pros cons of quick latches vs. aerocatches etc?

[gwnwar]

FYI the bolts for the steering clamps are graded..

[einy]

Apr 23, 2015 3:49:50 GMT jmills said:

What are people using to mount the bodywork? I'm getting closer to that point and need to choose a latch / closure method. Any pros cons of quick latches vs. aerocatches etc?

Check out what Wayne did on the VeryCoolParts post ... he developed a bayonette type mount for the front of the front bodywork (man, I hope that makes sense!) that has no external fasteners up front, and only two quick release fasteners in the rear of that bodywork piece. VERY clever!

I'm hoping he has interest in producing a 'commercial' version of those front mounts !

[ImprobableConstruct]

I was under the impression that using a proportioning valve with ABS was counter productive. The computer can tell when the brakes are about to lock up so there is no need to do it manually. Is there something that I am missing?

[zeitgeist]

Wow what great timing for an update. I just picked up my 99 donor today and wanted ABS for the same reasons. What year donor and/or ABS system are you using? I also have never seen an adjustable proportioning valve used with ABS. This is what you are referring to correct? It looks like it in your pictures. Or are you referring to the factory block/proportioning valve or some sort of EBD unit?

I would love to hear more on the tools,wiring,flares etc.. you used for the ABS portion and any more pics would be great.

Love the color you chose.

[jmills]

IC, on a modern and very sophisticated ABS unit, yes, in theory at least. It's pretty hard to detect pre-wheel lock and modulate, it's typically an after the fact response. That said, on a good ABS unit, most drivers would never notice a difference. Shift to a 1995 ABS unit and it's like comparing Pacman to Forza 5.. With my Pacman ABS unit it cuts back braking pretty hard at lock, and with the upgraded front brakes on top of the stock front brake bias the fronts would lock with the rears doing minimal work. By pulling the stock biasing valve and running the proportioning valve I should get more out of the rears before any wheel lock, after lock ABS kicks in in the usual primitive way.

If anyone has contrasting views I would love to hear them. From my reading in a modern set up you would not want the valve unless you swap hardware, on an older setup with a poor stock bias there is some benefit to be gained. Also, this is all for a track car, I don't expect any benefit on the street.

[jmills]

Zeitgeist, happy to share the journey. Give yourself a few days to do all of it. PM me if you want to connect.

[jmills]

To the specific questions, all pre flared lines in the above lengths, removed the stock proportioning block, used an all star performance prop valve with flyin miata adapters to m10 fittings. Brakes are stock rear calipers and wildwood 4 piston fronts on 11" rotors, further making the stock bias worse..

[zeitgeist]

Thanks for the update and details. I guess I will have to hope the newer system has similar length lines or get a good flaring tool. I was hoping to use NiCop lines for ease of bending but the few times I have flared brake lines (20+ years ago) it wasn't easy or done properly without a few attempts.

Does the earlier ABS system use a ECU that is stand alone or integrated with the engine ECU?

For some reason I don't see the PM access on this board or I don't have permissions for them yet. If you don't mind drop me an email at zeitgeist8 AT gmail DOT com . I appreciate the help with questions.

[jmills]

Zeitgeist,

On the 95 I believe it is standalone, not sure if this ever changed in later years.

I started trying to flare my own lines, but the cheap flare tool I had made terrible flares. I threw in the towel and got some pre-made lengths. I got a cheap tube bender from auto-zone that has worked well. My method was hand-bend a NiCop line to get the shape I needed, then copy that using the tubing bender for the steel lines. One NiCop section lasted me for all the lines. You can also get pre-flared lengths with NiCop, but it's a bit more expensive.

The line lengths you need will vary depending on how you mount the ABS unit, if you keep or replace the stock proportioning block, use an in-cockpit proportioning valve etc.

Email sent.

[nomdenom]

prop valve is useful even with abs, no doubt.

[jwagner]

jmills, I did a lot of research on ABS in the NA/NB and can pretty much confirm what you wrote above. The NA uses a primitive 3 channel system - FL/FR & rear combined. The best thing that can be said about it is that it prevents flat spots on expensive tires when you come flying into a corner too hot. Unlike the NC, where the ABS was a huge asset (except when it went into Ice Mode) I don't think you gain much from the NA ABS and the prop valve seems like a good idea to get the system balanced. Supposedly the late NB systems are better.

[jmills]

Great to hear you guys have read the same

I think the best explanation on the mutual benefits of ABS and an adjustable proportioning valve are that properly adjusted brake bias will maximize your braking power by pushing each wheel closest to its braking limits before wheel lock, at which point ABS would take over in typical fashion and maximize braking after you push it to wheel lock. In a more practical sense, flat spot prevention.

There is some background with Miatas having a significant front brake bias, so you'll lock the fronts well before using the rears to their full potential. The Spec Miata guys have been after stock-part based solutions for this for years, fortunately we don't have to deal with those constraints.

The big question is will I be able to feel a difference after all the research and build time, hopefully will have an answer this summer.

Jwagner, how is the build going?