Track Day Rules?

[Deleted]

Hi all,

So here is a few question for you racers and indeed event organisers and track owners....

1: Do you sign a disclaimer when arriving and registering to race on the track?

2: Does the disclaimer basically rule out any blame or responsibility to the track organisers / event organisers and indeed owners?

3: If the answer to both the above questions is YES, then why would some vehicles be now banned from attending?



So my last question is this.


4: If I arrive in my Kia Rio, MR2, XR2, Mercedes, BMW or whatever I decide to bring on the day, I pass all the regulations and scrutineering, I sign the waiver excluding the organisers of any such claim should I total my car or indeed kill myself whilst driving fast, on the track, like I paid to do... So say I turn up in my BMW M3, im driving faster each lap, getting braver, then I go past the point of no return and flip my car onto its roof. Does this mean you will then ban cars, or just all BMW M3's?


I only ask as in the past when I attend a track day, I sign a disclaimer, which removes any responsibility to the track organisers, owners and indeed other track day users, that should I hurt or kill myself whilst driving, or should I damage another vehicle, the track, the organisers, the owners take no responsibility for my actions, and that really no insurance is covering me to race, unless I specified this when insuring my car. What about a track day involving motorbikes? If I fall off my bike on a corner, will bikes be banned or just my particular Honda NC30? The decision seems to be fairly bizarre. This question is regarding why OMEX and Complete Kit Car have decided a ban is needed at llandow on some vehicles.

I would be most interested in a response


Nick

[nigel]

Nick... Are your talking about competitive or none competitive motorsport or both?

Nigel

[Deleted]

Non competitive



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[johnp]

It can only be down to statistics (unlikely - I haven't been able to find any published) or prejudice - "trikes fall over, don't they?"

[nigel]

It's all a matter of what is considered an acceptable degree of risk. Now I realise that doesn't fully answer your question, and if I get the time this weekend I'll try and post something up that I hope does, based on my experiences of running curborough over the last 5 years, trying with stuart to encourage castle comb to run 'kitfest' as well as various other experiences and exposure to this interesting somewhat legalistic subject. However if there is anyone else reading this that wants to jump in please do.

Nigel

[Deleted]

Oct 2, 2014 16:44:59 GMT johnp said:

It can only be down to statistics (unlikely - I haven't been able to find any published) or prejudice - "trikes fall over, don't they?"

If you sign a declaration before driving, I don't see why one vehicle in particular is then stopped from attending a track day, held by in part one of the UK's largest magazines that specialise in publicising such vehicles?

I don't get it at all.

Might as well not bother signing any declaration.

[Stiggy]

the reality is that you cannot sign your life away. Our blame culture can cause alarm bells to ring in public liability insurance offices and premiums are not falling. So you total yourself, the defence given is that you signed your rights away, your widow will have a barrister, the insurance company will be trying to keep it's purse shut. The organiser can be held responsible for negligence claims. Defence in court that starts with "he knew the risks" is possibly going to end after a short hearing. So when the organiser spots a potential unacceptable hazard or vehicle type of higher risk then they are quite right to protect themselves and ban certain people or cars. Very similar to road insurance, some cars have a higher premium because they attract certain individuals rather then because they are more expensive to repair, they are more likely to need repair.
When an accident happens that could have been avoided by a simple sign it is no good trying to hide behind that disclaimer, they can lock the organiser up for negligence.

[johnp]

I have tried fairly hard to obtain stats for trikes but there seems to be nothing of significance ont' web. Perhaps your insurer may be able to shine more light on the subject - they cannot simply pull a figure out of the air as a risk assessment for insuring a vehicle. Like I said before I believe it must be unfounded prejudice which you could possibly defeat with a united front - get together with other trikers and show the operators that you can line their pockets coz money talks - fill a trackday.  Perhaps we need a legal-eagle to join the discussion. If it transpires that there is no legal basis for a denial of use then it would be up to trikers to get together and use their buying power to change the minds of the operators - you'll never change their minds solo - trikers unite!

[Deleted]

It's not affecting me, for me personally I don't give a hoot, I go faster on public roads than on a track anyway, but I think banning tr1kes after one incident is just wrong, like stated before, if a similar car flips onto its roof, is this going to be banned from attending? I don't think so somehow.

No worries

[slugshot]

Being banned from the kitcar only trackday event doesn't bother me too much, though I would of thought the guys running the show would of had a bit more of a clue.
The tR1ke is surely like any other vehicle isn't it, you drive it within its and your own limit.
I could show hours of trackday footage of me driving within the limits, so to be banned is pathetic but as I said, I'm not too bothered as I can get my kicks at blyton which is run by friendly welcoming people that do have a clue.

[welshy1]

I may be missing something here but im guessing that llandow have banned trikes on track is that right.

Well the last 2 events ive done at llandow one in my mk1 vr ltd and the 2nd in my exocet both times have had serious incidents during the day, the first one was when a puma tried to force it way past a mini that didn't want to move over resulting in both hitting each and both being banned from the track also at the same time several puma drivers were also banned for acting like they were racing thankfully they were put in there own group when this happened.

The 2nd time again a puma rolled which was just an accident then later on I the day a Peugeot 106 mounted a caterham wont go into to much detail with that one.

Im guessing there been another incident with a trike at some point between then.

What im getting at is the management have been in talks to try and cut this out and are using actions they deam suitable now I don't know much about this with the trikes or the incident so cant comment as I don't know the full story.

I will say that the people who run it are a nice bunch of people but they have there own interest to attend with so some will be disadvantaged by it.

[carbonbob]

could all track back to the historic vehicle called a reliant robin that did fall over on every corner and a certain mr clarksons escapades Now I know its not a trike but what 3 wheelers are allowed and which deathtraps are not !!! now im a careful driver so not sure how any one could ever lose control so perhaps I shouldn't be commenting on this, personally let the buggers have a go hehe

[Deleted]

But to be fair Bob, any vehicle has the potential to turn over, and they do.

[Peregrine]

With regards to tr1kes, which circuits have people had success in attending track days?

[Deleted]

Blyton for sure, it tends to be the organisers more than the track, for instance Javelin have some hangup about trikes turning over after several Grinnall Scorpians turned over, so now they look at all trikes as unstable. I would have thought unless you are driving like a B3LL END and deliberately aiming to hit people or roll the vehicle, imposing such measures on possibly the safest UK built trike is B0LLOX

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