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Post by davej98002 on Jul 14, 2018 7:35:29 GMT
In just plain English, Would you buy one?
There has not been any kits made in a few years now and the total is under 13 in the whole world (13th may be the prototype) . Of those 12 known units, only like 4 have made it to the streets.
So IF you think it would be a good trike kit then let us know. I think Stuart Mills will allow a build if there is a demand.
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Post by roger32849 on Jul 15, 2018 3:08:05 GMT
There are some pretty nice trikes coming out of garages. They range from economical to outrageously expensive. The Eco-Exo is more toward the economic end. It isn’t sleek and smooth like the T-Rex. It is more like the old VW Beetle. It sort of grows on you. The trick in making one is not to copy Stuart Mills design exactly. Call it whatever you like, but give a bit more thought into the design. Once you call it the Eco-Exo, then of course you involve Stuart Mills... Heck, make that 650 version and call it the EXO/650...or something like that. If you choose to do this and if it looks like anything that has the MEV Label on it, get permission before you go into business. If you design your own and decide to manufacture, then, you naturally cannot post your progress on this forum unless you have the MEV seal of approval.
When we met the latter part of June, my parting comment to you was to build something. I still encourage you to do that. If you can, order a kit from Dove Racing, or design your own. Would I buy another Eco-Exo? It would be hard to justify. If I didn’t have one, well of course I’d buy one. It is a great starter kit.... Easy to build
Good luck Dave..
Roger
Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by davej98002 on Jul 15, 2018 3:26:57 GMT
It is really just a question to see if anyone would want a kit like the Eco-Exo. It would not need to be me doing the builds. If someone sees this post and thinks they could make these I am sure Stuart will work with them.
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Post by kiwicanfly on Jul 15, 2018 4:14:54 GMT
In plain English - no I wouldn't.
Trikes in general don't do it for me.
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Post by davej98002 on Jul 15, 2018 4:59:34 GMT
In plain English - no I wouldn't. Trikes in general don't do it for me.And then there's that. 
I use 4 wheels when I must. I do 90% of my miles on two wheels in all weather to include some snow when I get caught out. But damages to my body due to crashing motorcycles I am looking for a solid trike with 2 up front and 1 in the rear. When Scott was making these Eco kits I did not know until the end of his run. And then he sold it to Kelvin and ZERO have been made.
I guess if no one really want to build one I will give up on a Eco-Exo. It would be a fun little trike. A tR1ke is too much for what I want. A 30 HP E-trike would work but battery technology are not there yet for a 150 mile day ride at 70 MPH so a gas powered trike is it.
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Post by roger32849 on Jul 15, 2018 10:48:55 GMT
Dave:
Somehow I read more into your question than you asked, but the answer would be the same. The simple answer is No I wouldn't buy one because I already have one. Trikes are a lateral move from a motorcycle, not necessarily like the Slingshot, but more like the MEVABUSA and the TR1ke...as well as the T-Rex. YouTube is full of videos highlighting trike builds from go-cart size to monsters. I believe the person that is capable of welding and has a little engineering knowledge could in fact build a one off trike without going through the expense of buying a prefabricated kit. For what I have invested in my two trikes I could have purchased a fully loaded Polaris Slingshot, or the tour model of the Can-Am Spyder with money left over. What I wanted to do though is actually build something myself. The EcoExo in comparison to the TR1KE is like comparing a Ferrari to a Smart car. The TR1KE is a handful. It screams power and speed, just as the Eco-Exo exudes economy. While the TR1KE is an adrenaline rush, the Eco-Exo is fun and sporty.
When I ride either of my trikes, the gas station becomes a one vehicle "car show" at times. The most often asked question is: "What is this thing". The least asked is: Where can I get one". Almost all comments concerning my TR1ke are based on people mistaking it for either a T-Rex or Slingshot. Some to the point they want to argue the point when I tell them there is only a handful of these in the entire country.
There is interest, but most from what I would call tire kickers. The Slingshot has really dominated trike sales and has hurt the sales of smaller businesses like Dove Racing.
If you look at etrikes like Stuart Mills designed, the range largely depends on the battery type you use. You could get up to about 120 miles from a lithium ion battery pack, naturally a lot less for lead acid. His etrike is capable of scooting down the highway at a good clip. On the practical side, it would make an excellent errand vehicle, or an "E" commuter. It looks fun to drive, it seems to handle okay and has plenty of power. The question is: Did Stuart make the recharge system compatible with the universal hybrid car charging stations?
Not the short answer, but if you want build a a copy of anything out there, it is doubtful anyone would lend out their pride and joy so you could clone it. Anyway, keep in touch and good luck in your pursuit of getting something built.
Roger
Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by edvb on Jul 15, 2018 16:06:50 GMT
I lucked out and got Kevin P to sell me his kit back in 2013. Even then it took a lot of time and work to get it to what I have today. I do not have the resources I had back then and would not be able to build one today that would be equal to it.
My choice today would be a new 2019 Vanderhall Venice Speedster that they will be making shortly. For 27K it has everthing I need.
Dave, Batteries are getting better every day. I think the Arcimoto FUN or Meccanica Solo would be close to fit your bill for under 16K.
Both would allow you to tinker with them after the warranty is up and by that time you should be able to get the 150 mile range you wanted.
Both are pretty close to you in case of problems and just seems like the best solution for you.
For me at this time if I did not have my Eco Exo R the 2019 Vanderhall Venice Speedster would be my choice for sure!
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Post by Stiggy on Jul 16, 2018 9:16:00 GMT
The most successful EV of today is driven by 7000 Li 18650 cells, I have 5 in my drill, not exactly cutting edge.
I hear suggestions that battery prices will come down as production increases. I wonder, perhaps we are looking at a supply/demand scenario where prices go up if demand out strips supply. Imagine how much a diamond would cost if the mines put all their stock to market in one day. The few Countries that sit on lithium reserves are the oil barons of tomorrow.
Chile is the place with the most around 7,500,000 metric tons of the stuff to pull out.
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Post by davej98002 on Jul 16, 2018 15:59:13 GMT
Stuart, I have priced new Li battery packs and just a 20Kw pack is around $3500 USD. Recovered Chevy Volt or Nissin Leaf packs are around 2/3's that price and will still last about 2500 charge cycles. That's about 5-8 years of riding. When Roger met me for lunch we talked a lot about trikes. I brought the E-Trike plans you sent me and we looked over them. I am looking at a dual 120 Volt 3 phase Hub motor and 2ea 18 Kw/h Chevy Volt packs. So the Motor, Controller, BMS system and chargers will run $5500 and Batteries around $4200. It would give a top speed MUCH faster than I'd go in a E-Trike. But my range will be around 150 miles. The problem with Lithumn is it is used in many other things. Drugs for Mental health. Alloy in metals. One of the main ingredients of a Nuclear bomb. Alien's have used it in their spaceships (Di Lithium Chrystals) . And now batteries. |
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Post by davej98002 on Jul 17, 2018 20:08:59 GMT
Edward, those EV trikes are both still Capital Venture (Since 2009) and not full production, just like the great Eleo. I know three people that have invested $1000 each vehicle in the Non-Refundable part of Eleo and they got a tee shirt and a lot of paper brochers....
If they can pull a full production trike off for under $12,000 I'd sign up for sure. When you add up all the controllers/management systems/Chargers and then add Batteries, The tires, A/C, Seating, Weather protection, and just the main steel structure I do NOT see them making it to production for less than $18,000
I think we can still build a Eco-Exo for under $18,000 but t will cost more to run it compared to the 230 MPGe of a EV at our Kw/h charge up here of $0.085 per Kw. A 25 Kw set of batteries costs $2.13 per charge and gives 130 miles run. A Burgman 400 will use 2 US gallons to go that same 130 miles @ $3.499 per gallon. (US Gallon is 3.8 L)
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Post by kiwicanfly on Jul 17, 2018 22:15:15 GMT
Despite my previous comment about not liking Trikes in general I reckon another flaw in the initial question is that the wrong people are being questioned.
Most members here became members after purchasing a kit or, at least, committing to a purchase.
However unfortunately I am unable to suggest of whom or where the question needs to be asked.
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Post by edvb on Jul 18, 2018 0:27:45 GMT
Dave I just thought I would toss the idea in as these two might see production soon. Both are close to you so I took a shot. I just took my trike up to Door county for a few days. You are right as I average about 151 miles per fill up with about a gallon left in the tank.  IMG_20180716_194916699 by evanbelkom, on Flickr |
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Post by davej98002 on Jul 18, 2018 3:24:59 GMT
Despite my previous comment about not liking Trikes in general I reckon another flaw in the initial question is that the wrong people are being questioned. Most members here became members after purchasing a kit or, at least, committing to a purchase. However unfortunately I am unable to suggest of whom or where the question needs to be asked. I am the Admin for another Proboards Reverse trike forum. I have asked over there in the past and a few members would like a kit for around $5000 USD. Stuart Mills was willing to give a license to build them and Qdos was willing to sell the plans, ant web stuff and GRP jigs but no chassis.
But, as I am told, it may be best to just forget about resurrecting the little trike.
Thanks Edward. Keep it sane.
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Post by roger32849 on Jul 18, 2018 11:13:34 GMT
I just checked out the new Vanderhall trike. Front wheel drive and automatic transmission. It really has a retro look. Like they removed the wings and stabilizer from an old biplane, lopped the prop and added a tail dragger tire to the back. It is a without a doubt a classic style and some very heavy molded GRP chassis work. It is quite well made, not sure I like the grill area, but the interior is well appointed and it seems to have plenty of room. Not sure about luggage space, but beneath the rear cowl there may be enough room for a small duffle or similar. I like it....
Roger
Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by resonance94 on Dec 4, 2018 9:43:43 GMT
409/5000 The vanderhall is definitely a nice machine, but it has nothing to do with an eco-exo. In terms of size, engine, finish, use and price. For an aviation aspect, there is also the pembleton, available as a kit, or mount by "the factory" www.pembleton.co.uk/the eco exo is a fun device, to go out to take the air, to walk when there is too much stress, or to seek the bread. |
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