MK1 & MK2 Master Cylinder Difference Diagram

[PardonWhat]

Hi everyone,
Take a look at the following diagram to see the differences I have with my MK2 ABS brake master setup compared to a MK1.
Fig.1 and Fig.2 show the difference with the actual master. Note that the MK2 has one less outlet to use.
Fig.3 and Fig.4 show the difference in pipework.
Fig.5 is a question to someone who knows more about this than me.

Have a look and get the discussion going.



Thanks P.

[PardonWhat]

...oh and by the way, if have made any silly mistakes then please speak up as I'm pretty new to all this.

[John B]

Hi P,
Had the same problem myself. My doner is a mk1 with ABS and is exactly the same as your mk2 setup. I bought a used non ABS master cylinder, servo and proportioning valve for the grand total of.........£1.21!!!!! From eBay.
I can now sell all the related ABS items which I'm sure will be worth more than the non ABS items.
There are plenty of non ABS master cylinders for sale and I'm pretty sure the mk1 items will fit your mk2 with no concerns.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
John.

[Deleted]

Have a look back as I mentioned this elsewhere in another thread about brakes-
Just be careful when swapping individual parts of the braking set up rather than the whole thing, as I fell foul when I purchased a master cylinder and proportioning valve from a mk1 to fit my mk2 servo. The mk1 and mk2 servos (black tub thingy) are slightly different and won't work together. Do as John has and buy the lot if you want to change, as I'm sure a mk2/abs set up will be more sought after and get more money than the mk1/non abs you buy!
Alex

[PardonWhat]

John, that is a crazy price. I might have to run by the missus before I commit to such extravagance!

Alex, yes it's been touched on before but I was really wanting to if anyone had enough knowledge of braking systems to comment on actually splitting the line to go to both front wheels. In essence, will the second outlet on the proportioning valve have enough shove to cater for both front wheels. This would be in the same way as a MK1 rear line which, as I gather, goes from one outlet on the prop valve and splits at the rear.
Can this be done for the front too? I dunno...

Perhaps it'll be easier to just get a MK1 setup.

Thanks for your comment guys

Paul.

[John B]

Hi Paul,
I looked into splitting the front line also but was advised against it on the basis that it would not have the same power as the proper non abs system and would infact be very difficult to set up and pass the IVA test.
If you look around there are plenty of non abs master cylinders about.

[lukiez]

you shouldn't have a problem doing a setup like fig.5 at the end of the day in normal use the ABS is bypassed and act as a splitter. it only comes in once it detects a wheel locking up thus closes a valve preventing pedal pressure to the brakes.

to put it another way, the abs is designed such that if it fails whether electronically or mechanically you still have a functioning brake system.

to conclude, it wouldn't change the hydraulic pressure/effect by removing it either nor the proportioning valve (which you could remove if it gave problems). under IVA rules the the brake system must use a dual circuit split to at least 2 wheels - i.e. front circuit & rear circuit

hope this helps

[PardonWhat]

lukiez. Thanks for the reply, great concise answer.
With that in mind I think I might take the plunge and be the guineapig on this one. If it doesn't work I can whip the MK2 setup out and install the MK1 I bought just before I read your reply.
I keep you all posted on how I get on. I guess it all hangs on whether I can get the fronts to lock up before the rears. If I can then it'll make life easier for other builders who are removing the ABS on MK2's.

If anyone else has anything to add to lukiez comments I'd welcome them. It'll either big a huge success or a massive failure but if I can experiment on my own car then what am I doing this all for eh?

Cheers
Paul. ;D

[exoRy]

PardonWhat - Sorry to bring up an old thread - I'm in the process of removing my ABS - and wondering if you actually went this route - and if you had any problems???

[PardonWhat]

Hi exoRy, apologies for the very, very late reply. I've not logged on for an age. I went for the MK1 setup in the end.
I'm guessing you've sorted yours by now...