The end of kit cars as we know them?

[stevednorris]

Could this be the end of kit cars as we know them. Current government proposals that all newly registered cars will have to pass current engine emission standards, there is a section about the IVA being included.

Proposal below:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/678209/road-vehicles-improving-air-quality-and-safety.pdf

[Stiggy]

ABSOLUTE NONSENSE !!

All Mx5's that are fitted with a CAT will pass the current MOT emission standards so no need to write such a scary post Steve, it dosen't effect MEV's.

The fact is that anyone building a kit with an old Pinto fitted with bike carbs or a 60's V8 with 4 down draughts will have to think again.

[stevednorris]

Hopefully so.

[skyquake]

Waoh, not so fast.  Read the document:

Kit cars
4.10 Kit cars and reconstructed classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet WLTP, given that at present they are not required to meet NEDC or the latest EU standards. Instead they are tested to age-appropriate MOT standards, on the basis of the date of manufacture or first use of the engine.
4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.
4.12 Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new.
4.13 When new vehicles were first required to be fitted with catalytic converters around 1992 (Euro 1 emissions standard), kit car makers typically used older engines which were not fitted with catalytic converters, hence the justification for age-appropriate testing of emissions based on date of engine manufacture or first use. The majority of the fleet is now vehicles up to 25 years old whose engines are fitted with catalytic converters, providing plenty of choice to the kit car builder.

What this means is that regardless of which engine you choose, you will have to meet whatever the minimum standard is at the time of registration.  i.e, if this regulation comes into force, and the minimum level at the time I register my Sonic (with it's ST170 engine) is higher than I can achieve, then I will be looking at an engine swap in order to get through.  NOT something I want to consider!

I'm sure you're correct, in that most fairly modern CAT equipped engines will meet the current MOT emissions standards of today, but what about in 1-2 years, roughly when I'm likely to be registering my car?!

[Stiggy]

"not so fast, read the document" do you think I stated my opinion without due consideration?

Current MOT emissions are all we need to concern ourselves with, these are NOT Euro 6. Therefore any engine fitted with a CAT in reasonable order with a properly mapped or MX5/Focus ECU will comply.

As for the future, bear in mind current MOT emissions have been in force since 2001 and they are only now about to change after 17 years.
Easy to comply with emission standards in May will be;
CO <0.2%
HC < 200 ppm
Lambda 0.97-1.03

A standard 25 year old car with a CAT can manage that as standard.

Is it really going to take another 2 years to build your Sonic in any case?

[skyquake]

Ok, so fair enough. Current MOT levels are not too challenging, and are a long way from Euro6, as you say.  But what concerns me is that this gives them a mechanism for effectively outlawing older engines, when they next come round to updating the emissions limits. 

As it stands, kits cars have a degree of separation in that the acceptance criteria for emissions is based upon the minimum performance at the time the engine was manufactured/first used, not the current levels.

If, and when they next update the MOT limits, the revisions will be based upon more modern production vehicles, and they aren't going to think too hard about kit cars!

Feb 7, 2018 15:28:51 GMT Stiggy said:

Hopefully not, but at the current rate of progress, I'll probably still be trying to sort out my wiring loom in two years!!

[Stiggy]

Not going to happen, try logic, if they change the MOT rules so that we can't use a 25 year old engine then all 25 year old cars will have to be scrapped.
See 4.13 in the text you copied above, they are being very reasonable and stating that we have lots of engine choices, just not smokers from the distant past.

[aterro]

So to summarise, it's not going to affect us and you will need to undertake a cat test in line with above figures.

Unless you can prove engine was manufactured before 1994 and non cat test applies ?

[kiwicanfly]

Feb 7, 2018 11:57:47 GMT skyquake said:

4.11 We are proposing that for kit cars, compliance with the MOT emissions standards current at the date of registration will be required, despite the use of an older engine. In other words the current relaxation for emissions according to the age of the engine will no longer apply.

Ok this is the bit I don't understand but it does not apply to me at this stage so I am purely asking out of curiosity.

Are the MOT standards not based on the Euro Emission standards?

So is a car originally rated to Euro six not always tested to Euro six at the time of future MOT tests?

Thus a newly registered car, production or kit, has to meet the latest Euro standards regardless of the engine type and age?

[jake]

The MOT emission test standards are not based on the individual vehicles Euro emssions standard that it was type approved with.
So a Euro 6 car doesn’t get tested to different standards as a Euro 3 car.
The figures were using now are the ones In the earlier comments which were set in 2001.
Pre 1992 no CAT were different standards.
I would say newly registered kit cars have to have a CAT and achieve the 2001 standards.
All new production cars would have to meet the current Euro emssions when it was type approved . I don’t think cars like Atoms and Caterhams have to adhere to the latest emissions, they probably get round it by the small numbers produced or something like that....? They’re not really production cars.

[Stiggy]

We only need to meet MOT emission standards now and the same applies if they bring in the new proposals. Nothing changes for us.
Exocet is un affected unless you have a pre 1995 MX5 and do not have a CAT in which case if they bring in the proposals you will need a CAT.