Focus RS Engine ? ? ?

[richard]

Given that it is a 2.0L Zetec engine with a turbo, intercooler etc bolted on, does anybody care to guess whether it will fit ?
Any idea if the gearbox fitted to an RS is the same as an ST170, ie a Getrag ?
Looking to source a donor and a nice RS is available and has really perked my interests :-)
Was going down ST170 route but ready made turbo engine and management system with 300bhp available with not too much work is very tempting !
Well who would not want 600BHP/Tonne ?

[subevil]

Have sonic7 with st170 engine.
Believe sonics bay is slightly bigger but if its from focus mk1 important dimensions ie drive shafts are taken care of.
Dont worry about gearbox you can use mevs solution or get long cables made up for gear changes.
Havent done any other kits (disclaimer) but reguards turbo and intercooler their is a diesel rocket maybe they can help, think intercooler was mounted to role over bar.
You may have to cut out bits of grp but rocket has parts exposed already so would be inkeeping with look.

Anything over 300bhp/tonne imho commands a massive amount respect to keep it on the tarmac, GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

[s t o n i c]

Sounds like a great idea... Have been looking as RS turbo components myself. Cannot comment on gearbox but certain the Sonic has more clearance for exhaust manifold than Rocket. Ade had big challenge getting a good manifold to fit for his St170 engine but it was easy for me with Sonic.

Clearance around turbo would be the big question. Also heat. I think I will eventually take the rotax supercharger route.

Let us know how you get on.

[mattsmev]

I get the appeal of lots of power, i really do, but there must be a limit at some point. on a straight my 100bhp is not enough but the rest of the time i get a big enough buzz from my 1.6 engine at the moment.

my serious question is how much power is too much for a rocket? I have never lived with a very powerful car, but i assume at some point the power exceeds the ability of the tyres. Can you get to a point where you never have the confidence to use all of the power you have? i love the idea of these mega powerful rockets (even though my pockets aren't deep enough) but will 300bhp spin the wheels on the straight?

please don't consider me a kill joy, but in the long winter nights ahead i will dream of engine transplants, turbo chargers and the like, but if i were to save for a new engine what is my target bhp?

cheers

mattsmev

[Tim Kerr]

Hi Matt

I have a few mods to do to my Rocket over the next few months which i think will take it to approximately 220bhp. In my opinion i think thats more than enough and anything else gets in to the realms of undriveable, even on the track. You dont want to be spinning the wheels in 3rd in the dry!

I know Steven over here in NI with the supercharged Rocket has massive wheels to cope with the power. He also sheered driveshafts i believe and had to get heavier ones made i believe.

I am looking at my car as a more track day orientated car hence the spec i have. If i was having it as a road car with occasional track use i would probably have only done the ecu and TB's.

My final track day is in 2 weeks time. After that the car is being stripped completely. Engine out (to fix a sump oil leak) and also to fit new clutch. Also have a Puma Racing Gearbox which i am stripping to put the internals into my gearbox. This will give me a shot peaned 1st and 2nd gear, slightly longer third and fourth and i am currently sourcing a final drive ratio from a fiesta. This will give me a lower top speed but better acceleration for track day use.

In addition i have an aftermarket electric water pump to fit, new custom made radiator and fan, and i am also going to fit a small oil cooler adjacent to the fuel tank.

Finally, i am changing the head gasket (following a few overheating episodes!) an whilst the head is off will be having it skimmed and ported.

Other changes will be moving the battery up front and re-doing/tidying up all the wiring, fitting new multi connectors to make changing the engine easy.!

Finally i will be getting the car set up correctly on corner weights, caster/camber guage etc.

Tim

PS. Sorry to hijack the thread! I will start a "Re-build" thread next month when i start all the work.

[richard]

Well no one has said 'NO DONT DO IT' !

So if I can get donour RS at the right money that might be the way forward :-)
Will know by next week !

Was originally aiming at arould 180-200 BHP, would imagine 300BHP would still be drivable, just requiring a little ( well loads ) of respect :-)

Hopefully will see some cars at Stafford, with luck ones with ST170 engines !

Kit due end of October ! Garage cleaned out ! Can;t wait !

Thanks everyone for your comments.

[richard]

Hello Tim,

What engine are you running at the moment, with what mods ?

Any idea on your cars perforamnce ? 0-60 standing 1/4 etc ?

Sorry for all the questions :-)

Thanks

[Stiggy]

Can't imagine anyone wanting to read a thread on here re a car that crashed as the power exceeded the drivers ability. The problem I have always found is that you get used to extra power and don't realise how close to the limit you are. I would always suggest that anyone building anything should first of all have a ride in a standard car of the type they desire. It is of course wrong to assume that say a 200bhp BWW is in any way what so ever a guide to how a 200bhp Rocket handles. Most people hang on real tight when I take them for a spin in my Sonic, 170bhp is plenty to get you in to trouble. The great thing with these cars is that you can build it as standard with your donor parts that are included anyway. Then when you have got used to the car there are plenty of options. I would always suggest the customer builds up to it. Unless they have owned a powerful mid engined car b4 of course.
Driver training for those that wish to excell on the track rather than a power increase is the way to go. 600bhp per ton sounds good in the pub though.

[Tim Kerr]

Hi Richard

My engine is a 2.0ltr with Throttle Bodies, fast road cams, decat pipe and baffled sump; and M-tech ecu. It also has the standard IB5 box but with a quaife LSD.

Its putting out about 190bhp, but i have a few more mods to do which should bring it up to 220bhp.

0-60 is currently 4 seconds but that was with the launch control playing up a bit so should be 3.8 or less.

Tim

[bhowland]

300+ hp might sound like a lot but hyper-cars around the world follow this same formula: high hp low weight.

Although it might seem like a lot of work and countless hours on the dyno why cant people create multiple maps to work off of. This (to my knowledge) if what some cars have when put into sport/race mode. If the engine is capable of 300hp but only uses say 1/2 when in "normal" mode the fuel economy for this might be off the charts. When you show up to an event you switch to race mode where all of the 300 ponies are available. Daily drivablity wouldn't suffer and you wouldn't have to worry to much about violent off on public roads. During my Honda days the Hondata pro allowed you this option, and if i am not mistaken Ford aftermarket has a similar Ecu.

[Tim Kerr]

I have an economy/mot map and a race map. There aint much between them!

[supercharged]

Hi,
My name is Michael and i own the supercharged rocket, at present its running on race mode putting out 280bhp, it is very drivable with 'RESPECT', i also looked at the RS option but the power and torque delivery put me off, the supercharger has a more user friendly delivery. Although if i was going to build another Rocket an extremely tuned RS option would be up there.

[andychalmers]

I think the key thing is not how much power but the power delivery. I.E. a car on throttle boddies or Supercharger would be smooth & fast. A turbo has minimal power, then sudden serge when the boost cuts in, lag when you change gear. So the power curve is very aggressive up & down. I think if the power delivery is smooth then your car is more drivable therfore you can run more power.
I had a Sierra cosworth a long time ago with about 280bhp, it was lethal in the wet & still iffy even in the dry. I've forgotten how many times I spun it lol. It was great for a laugh but dangerous. I could not push the car as it just would'nt go straight. A turbo rocket would prob be similar.
I think a 200bhp 2Ltr engine on throttle boddies will be loads faster than a 300bhp turbo 2L around a track.
Must admit Im a more bhp the better sort of person so why not lol. Well I do drive a 400bhp day to day car lol.

[a16xtm]

hi richard, iv been on this forum on and off now for a while, the whole time iv had focus rs gear sitting at home just waiting to be put into a rocket, iv done alot of research into it, but everytime iv had the spare cash needed to tell RTR to go ahead with a chassis somethings always got in the way :cry:.. and iv never been happy with the idea of an ib5 or gertrag with the rs engine

iv not been on here much recently, but i actually came on here tonight to see if a rocket can be modified to use an mtx75 box without changing too much of the car, as looking at the options in my eyes its the most cost effective one.

if you search my name, all that will come up is questions about this conversion lol.

just to add to those questioning the way the power would come in, its all easy sorted with a boost controller that can be custom mapped for the amount of boost at any given revs.

if you get there before me, good luck and start a build thread!

[andychalmers]

Where are you from A16xtm and whats your name? Lend me your engine and I'll see if fits ;o)
Im from Ripon, north yorks