so who's up for it another bec rocket.

[CBR ocket (tonyslee)]

just thought i would put some feelers out.
tony

[scottie999]

Quite fancy doin a Suzuki gsxr1000 powered one, got the running gear lying in the workshop, we did a couple of westfields and a formula 27 with zx9 running gear and a z cars mini with gsxr1000, all really good fun. What is yours like to drive?

[CBR ocket (tonyslee)]

Aug 26, 2011 20:55:41 GMT scottie999 said:

Quite fancy doin a Suzuki gsxr1000 powered one, got the running gear lying in the workshop, we did a couple of westfields and a formula 27 with zx9 running gear and a z cars mini with gsxr1000, all really good fun. What is yours like to drive?

it drives really well! one or two mods been done and a couple teething problems but nothing big and the acceleration is amazing
heard on the grape vine there might be a busa rocket demo car soon

[mikehb2002]

I've recently bought a 02 hayabusa with the intention of putting the engine in a car. Haven't quite figured out what kitcar to put it in yet though!What weight is yours with the blade engine?
Michael.

[andychalmers]

Im toying with the idea soon as mine passes its IVA. Looked at Busa engine but from what I've read they need dry sumping if put in a car, some dont and get away with it. But this is very expensive if you do. Most big cc bike engines are quite expensive so the old school engines such as the Fireblade, GSXR etc are very reasonable. Im looking at 1 step further tho, twin bike engines ;o)

[mattsmev]

I may be wrong (I often am) but think you only need to dry sump when the engine is in the front because it then runs longitudinally. In a rocket the engine still goes across the car, just like it is on the bike, so you wont need to dry sump it.

[CBR ocket (tonyslee)]

Aug 26, 2011 22:44:39 GMT mikehb2002 said:

I've recently bought a 02 hayabusa with the intention of putting the engine in a car. Haven't quite figured out what kit car to put it in yet though!What weight is yours with the blade engine?
Michael.

Well i was told by paul (rtr) that at the iva it weighed in around 450 kg which i was very happy with.
I still need to do a few more mods like change the air box design again to take advantage of the cool air through the scoop plus also it needs to go on a rolling road to have a map made up (running on standard bike map at the mo)

[CBR ocket (tonyslee)]

Aug 27, 2011 16:41:02 GMT mattsmev said:

I may be wrong (I often am) but think you only need to dry sump when the engine is in the front because it then runs longitudinally. In a rocket the engine still goes across the car, just like it is on the bike, so you wont need to dry sump it.

you still need a dry sump or at least a modded sump ,when a bike leans into corners the oil stays in the sump (deeper point where the pickup is) bottom but when its in the rocket it would be sloshing from side to side and the possibility of sucking up air.

[daydreamer]

RE Dry Sump requirement for some (bike) engines when installed in a car.

This is a golden opportunity for me to display my ignorance so here goes.

I think this is because bikes tilt as they go around corners so the oil does not rush massively to one end or the other. It stays pretty much level across the bike, side to side ( not front to rear ) This means that the sump can be pretty flat and the oil pickup does not need to be especially low.

From casual observation, most car sumps have a noticeably lowered end, a well if you like, and the oil pickup retrieves oil from there. My bike is a two-stroke so doesn’t have an oil sump, hence I can't compare.

The bike engine when installed in a car, will remain level, depending on your enthusiasm while cornering, and the oil may rush from one side to another leaving the oil pickup exposed and sucking in air. ( now for some fantastic speculation ) Fluid pumps are generally pretty slow at clearing air from them and a half second exposure to air may take longer to clear through the pump.

Another thought is that bike engines generally have a more sporting tune to them with refined components for bearings, sleeves, pistons, valves and so on. This possibly makes them a bit more fussy about the odd air bubble in the oil supply than a bog standard car lump.

Where vehicles are used on a track then corners can be long and fast so problems of oil pickup and recirculation arise as there could be more oil up the sides of the sump than around the oil pickup at the bottom of the sump. Even car engines need a dry sump to ensure an uninterrupted supply of oil around the engine in these conditions.

All of these are just thoughts and there are certainly better informed sources out there somewhere.

For the record, I have neither a dry sump nor a bike engine in my build and I know that I can rely on merciless correction on any thoughts above that are wide of the mark.

I hope that adds something useful to the discussion.

[mattsmev]

Hi All

Good point Tony and Daydreamer

I can certainly see that not leaning into the corners is a significant change, so a dry sump would be of benefit. I have one friend with a 'blade powered Westfield that is not dry sumped just baffled (even though the engine is longitudinally mounted) and another friend with a 'busa powered Westfield that is dry sumped. My logic above is based in mounting it as it would be in the bike, but I can see that as you can't bank the car over into the corner it will be different.

What other kit cars mount bike engines transversely? There may be some experience out there.

Many thanks guys

Mattsmev

[CBR ocket (tonyslee)]

Aug 28, 2011 7:09:06 GMT mattsmev said:

Hi All

Good point Tony and Daydreamer

I can certainly see that not leaning into the corners is a significant change, so a dry sump would be of benefit. I have one friend with a 'blade powered Westfield that is not dry sumped just baffled (even though the engine is longitudinally mounted) and another friend with a 'busa powered Westfield that is dry sumped. My logic above is based in mounting it as it would be in the bike, but I can see that as you can't bank the car over into the corner it will be different.

What other kit cars mount bike engines transversely? There may be some experience out there.

Many thanks guys

Mattsmev

Hi
When building the cbrocket i was going to modify my original sump (which can be done ) but after talking to Andy at ab performance (this guy is handy to know when building a bec)
i ended up buying one of his billet sumps just to be on the safe side as its been race proven ,mind you they ain't cheap!

[scottie999]

They arent cheap right enough but they are cheaper than a new engine