Rocket Engine Choice

[mrbrown]

I have been reading all the threads with interest and I'm almost at the point of placing an order at RTR but I'm having trouble deciding on what engine to go with either:

a 1.8 from a donor
or
get a new st150 engine from my local ford dealer.

I prefer the st150 option but wonder how much more difficult it will be to fit?

As the st170 builds seem to have done alot of modification to get it all to fit.

Also would i be able to use a 1.8 focus as the donor for the rest of the bits if i brought a new engine?

Thanks

Marc

[mrbrown]

Would this fit?........ its alot cheaper than i was quoted from the ford dealer for the 2.0 st150:

[/url]http://pumabuild.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=7_129_130_348&products_id=2084

[nigel]

A common problem this one.

The first question you must answer is whats the Rocket going to be used for ?

Road, or road and the occasional track day, or track/competition only.

Like most people I guess that it'll be road with the occasional track day. The 1.8 is by far the easiest and cheapest build and of course has the option at a latter date to be tunned via cams, throttle bodies and ecu etc Alternatively you could start by using either the ST170 or ST150, although donors are a lot more expensive and installation is a little more envolved its quite achievable.

An alternative to both these options is to buy a 2Lt focus donor, plenty cheep ones on ebay and not much more than a 1.8, and then source from a scrap yard the IB5 gearbox as fitted to the 1.8 this easily fits to the 2Lt Zetec remember to use the 1.8 clutch assy, but I guess you'll fit a new clutch any way. Get the car through IVA and on the road in standard 2Lt form (IB5 gearbox is more than capable of taking the extra power) if you find after 12 months that you'd like a little more power you've plenty of options like RTR's M350. Its also worth mentioning that a brand new 2Lt Zetec engine is under £800.

Overall it just depends on what your intended use is going to be, how much money you've got to spend, what your technical abilities are and last but not least how good a driver you are.

What ever option you decide upon I'm sure you will be thrilled with the end result. ;D

nigel

[dinosaurjuice]

Nov 4, 2010 15:26:41 GMT nigel said:

What ever option you decide upon I'm sure you will be thrilled with the end result. ;D

well said.

just to completely contradict my choice of engine, i am of the view that the rocket is a lightweight car and deserves a lightweight engine. If i was to build again i would only consider the 1.6zetec SE or an ST150. end of.

Nigel is 100% right about what hes said. 1.8s are cheaper, widely available and plenty powerful enough.

It is possible to mess around with cams and throttle bodies etc, but i put a high value on retaining the original equipment designed by ford. 150 bench tested and quality assured horses may cost a few quid more, but to me it would be worth every penny in peace of mind and reliability. I still have a list of things to sort on my rocket, but everytime i go out to sort them i end up going for a drive

a word of caution: all of the above is my opinion and should not neccesarily be taken seriously ;D

Will

[s t o n i c]

I feel a real need to add to this. I have an ST170 and the ONLY change I made in the Sonic was a longer routing of the gearbox cables. This was to make life easy for me. Rocket owners (time for Ade to comment!) have to be more elegant because of the cable run and clearance for the exhaust manifold. 

As Nigel said, it's all about what you want the car for. Mine will be for track first but also usable on the road. For me, I see the 170 as a starting point for 2011. As a lapst (or not) boy racer and tuner back in my youth, I certainly plan to up the power. With 170 it's basically a big gokart so more power is certainly workable but you just need to know when to plant your right foot. Early 911's demanded respect with the rear drive and weight balance as do current and past GT2's.

Anyone fancy dropping a tuned turbo/supercharger engine in their car to see what 350hp does? 0-30 would be iffy because of traction maybe. 50-100 would be draw dropping. At speed would you get airborne? Bit like the Darwin Awards film when the guy fixed a rocket on the back of his car and literally took off. 

Sorry it's turning into a pub ramble.. And after only one drink. Budget, intended use and ability determine what's best for you.

Adding power is easy. Adding usable power is the challenge.

[nigel]

Will raises a very valid point '.......high value on retaining the original equipment designed by ford' quite simply aftermarket stuff is no where near as good as the original manufactures equipment.

Where this comes in to play most significantly with modern engines is in the area of engine management 'ECU's' Although after market ECU's may provide the facility to ram more fuel into the engine thus increasing BHP, without careful mapping, power delivery/driver-ability may be compromised, and I'm not even going to mention at this stage after market component reliability !

As for the cost of purchasing, installing, and mapping of aftermarket ECU's, and putting aside building your own mega squirt versions, your not going to get much change from say £500/£800 and I've not even mentioned the cost of throttle bodies and cams yet.

Just remember you get a tried, tested, ultra reliable, economical ECU free with every donor car and on top of that theres never any problems with passing the emission checks.

It's a key reason why I originally decided to build a MEV kit.

nigel

[redmer]

....and who will be the first one to try the 1.6 ecoboost (160Hp completely standard)...now out in the new Mondeo...focus will folow

[mattsmev]

Another good choice is the Rover V8 3.5l engine,

Cheers

Mattsmev

[squelch]

i wouldnt say that, the rover v8 takes alot of work to get any decent power out of it
i have a mondeo with an overbored 3.5 v8 fitted with stage 2 kit and running a Edelbrock 500cfm carb
when its rejetted properly it'll be running around 200-220bhp at the moment with it overfueling it hit 166bhp on the rollers at the flywheel