I am supporting Boris

[Stiggy]

Sadly the EU has done and continues to make life difficult for kit cars in Britain, no where in Europe can you register a new kit apart from here but Brussels continue to apply rules for us to comply with. Electric kit cars are effectively a thing of the past now unless you throw a 6k lab test at it before your apply for IVA. Now tow bars on kit cars are yet another recent NO NO from across the water. They make rules for us but do not accept our cars, bent banana anyone?

[ritchie624]

I'm out too!

[welshy1]

Im out as well. Then we can get the government we want to do the real deals. But sadly think we are already set to remain.

[Stiggy]

taxi drivers opinion

[Stiggy]

a somewhat controversial opinion from the taxi driver in the last post. Time will tell, but those of us wishing to make a difference will have to go to the trouble of getting off our backsides and voting.

[turbosteve]

Out here too... and I work for an EU based company, who's 80% of work is in the UK! Yet, they don't even seem bothered by the process.

[mawdo81]

I was reluctant to post under this topic as a) I don't actually think this is the place for politics and b) I didn't want my name on the home page under this threads title...

But, please can I ask for some details to substantiate the claims? Stiggy you have often said that the IVA can't test anything that is outside the manual and they have to test to the manual. There is a seperate discussion re jacksdad 's e-Rocket and the outcome for that seemed fine, IIRC...

Re Towbars - when did they become an issue? As recently as Stoneleigh you launched a new product that requires one. Are you suggesting that there was no notice or consultation period?

The bent banana issue is an urban myth based on a smigen of truth aimed at ensuring food's fitness for human consumption.

Is it the EU that "is bad for the kit car industry" or is it the relentless march of progress towards safer and greener vehicles? Safer not just for the driver, but for passengers and third parties as well. Is that a good thing or not? Would it happen outside the EU anyway? Quite possibly/probably.

The whole industry is a high end, discretionary spend industry that relies on its customers having significant spare cash. Yes the Exocet is incredible value for money but one still needs a place to build it, the tools and the donor. This is before one puts it through IVA and pays for tax & insurance, or trailer & track fees. Either way there's the fuel etc...

This all relies on having a generally healthy economy with a good standard of living. The EU allows us to go and find where the work is and compete based on our skills and ability in a larger work market. It encourages investment in the UK from firms inside & outside the EU. It protects workers rights, meaning they feel safer with a smaller nest egg/back up prior to writing YOU a check for their hard earned cash.

We can go on road trips to France (or elsewhere) by sticking our passport in our back pocket, telling our insurance company and heading to the port/tunnel at a moments notice!

All of this misses the most important point in the whole debate: Peace.

World peace is never going to happen. Humans are too selfish yet also too susceptible to arguments that mean they end up doing other's bidding to their own determent. But the EU is arguably the biggest single benefit to peace the world has ever seen. Europe was plagued by war for its history prior to the creation of what is now the EU and we are enjoying the largest stretch of peace time on the continent since, probably the Romans (although that was hardly peaceful).

Just my 2p's worth.

[johnp]

Jun 10, 2016 12:31:40 GMT mawdo81 said:

I was reluctant to post under this topic as a) I don't actually think this is the place for politics and b) I didn't want my name on the home page under this threads title...

I agree with a)  and for b) your name is no longer next to the title

[Stiggy]

Jun 10, 2016 12:31:40 GMT mawdo81 said:

I was reluctant to post under this topic as a) I don't actually think this is the place for politics and b) I didn't want my name on the home page under this threads title...

But, please can I ask for some details to substantiate the claims? Stiggy you have often said that the IVA can't test anything that is outside the manual and they have to test to the manual. There is a seperate discussion re jacksdad 's e-Rocket and the outcome for that seemed fine, IIRC...

Re Towbars - when did they become an issue? As recently as Stoneleigh you launched a new product that requires one. Are you suggesting that there was no notice or consultation period?

The bent banana issue is an urban myth based on a smigen of truth aimed at ensuring food's fitness for human consumption.

Is it the EU that "is bad for the kit car industry" or is it the relentless march of progress towards safer and greener vehicles? Safer not just for the driver, but for passengers and third parties as well. Is that a good thing or not? Would it happen outside the EU anyway? Quite possibly/probably.

The whole industry is a high end, discretionary spend industry that relies on its customers having significant spare cash. Yes the Exocet is incredible value for money but one still needs a place to build it, the tools and the donor. This is before one puts it through IVA and pays for tax & insurance, or trailer & track fees. Either way there's the fuel etc...

This all relies on having a generally healthy economy with a good standard of living. The EU allows us to go and find where the work is and compete based on our skills and ability in a larger work market. It encourages investment in the UK from firms inside & outside the EU. It protects workers rights, meaning they feel safer with a smaller nest egg/back up prior to writing YOU a check for their hard earned cash.

We can go on road trips to France (or elsewhere) by sticking our passport in our back pocket, telling our insurance company and heading to the port/tunnel at a moments notice!

All of this misses the most important point in the whole debate: Peace.

World peace is never going to happen. Humans are too selfish yet also too susceptible to arguments that mean they end up doing other's bidding to their own determent. But the EU is arguably the biggest single benefit to peace the world has ever seen. Europe was plagued by war for its history prior to the creation of what is now the EU and we are enjoying the largest stretch of peace time on the continent since, probably the Romans (although that was hardly peaceful).

Just my 2p's worth.

Firstly I do not take kindly to being asked to change the title of my thread as per your PM. It's my opinion, I am entitled to it right?
Secondly if you do not wish to take part, then don't, if you do not want your name (which is not a name it's an AKA) at the side of my title.
Thirdly the board in question is called "general chat" and therefore the right place for topical general chat, politics is of no interest to me what so ever but when our scene is effected I feel it is my duty to inform members.
Fourthly for some reason you need proof to substantiate my claims. FACTS are as of 2 weeks ago you will find tow bars on kit cars are history and EV's are now tested as commercial vehicles (N1 not M1). Oh yes and trailers need IVA in the UK but no where else in the EU.
The point being if you speak to DVSA and ask "why the new rules?" They give a 2 letter answer, E and U.
THAT IS WHY I AM VOTING OUT.

[Stiggy]

Just found the DVSA email re tow bars. If as a manufacturer you rely upon the IVA manual then they just move the goal posts to conform with EU rules. No notice, just a memo and we are shot down. That is why I asked for the "MEV new product" Exopod to be removed. I note my request has been ignored despite it now being irrelevant and misleading.
If one reads section 50 re couplings it states that a type approved tow ball bolted directly to a chassis without a need for a coupling frame would be assessed by an IVA inspector as being "securely mounted to the vehicle". BUT I then received the following;

Good afternoon Stuart,

Having checked the wording in the manual and having some discussions amongst colleagues, I have checked the regulations referred to in the Approval Regulations. The following are my findings:

The Approval Regulations under section 50- couplings, state that the device must comply with the provisions of: Annex VII to Directive 94/20EC.

Within the directive, it states under definitions;

2.1 : Mechanical coupling devices between motor vehicles and trailers are all parts and devices on the frames, load bearing parts of the bodywork and chassis of the vehicles by means of which towing and towed vehicles are connected together.

It also includes fixed or detachable parts for the attachment, adjustment or operation of the above mentioned devices.

2.1.1: The coupling balls and towing brackets in section 1.3.1 are mechanical coupling devices employing a spherical device and brackets on the towing vehicle for connecting to the trailer by means of a coupling head.

Annex VII:

1.2: The coupling device shall be attached to the vehicle type according to the installation instructions, given by the vehicle manufacturer in agreement with the coupling manufacturer and the Technical Service. The vehicle manufacturer shall state the appropriate attachment points for the coupling device on the vehicle type and if necessary, mounting brackets, mounting plates, etc to be specified to be fitted on the specific vehicle type.

So, on the strength of the above, any towing device must be approved in whole, to be suitable for use on a particular vehicle.

I have copied our policy section in on the e mail and they may comment further if they believe we can accept your proposal, but my interpretation of the regulations would be that your proposal would not be acceptable.

Yours sincerely
STEVE JONES

TECHNICAL OFFICER, APPROVALS
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, Ellipse Building, Padley Road, Swansea, SA1 8AN
Phone: [phone], Mobile: N/A




With regards to EV's DVSA sent out an undated memo to take effect immediately stating IVA apps for EV's be classed as N1, no consultation, no notice just a kick in the bollox for anyone part way through an EV project.

Here is the leaked memo;


DVSA Memo No 12/16
Memo No 12/16
Title IVA M1 New Section 69
Subject area M1 Electric/Hybrid Vehicles
From Specialist Vehicle Tests & Approvals
Contact details IVA Technical [e-mail]

To (Action required) IVA Examiners, IVA Technical Officers, SVSAs, TTLs, DoENI
Copy to (for information) QA&I Officers, Operational Support
Expiry date On completion of Inspection Manual update
Supersedes Memos N/A

Purpose:
To clarify for IVA Examiners the interim introduction of Section 69 into the IVA M1 requirements pending the publication of a full Inspection Manual update.

Initiating Inputs:
Vehicles subject to M1 IVA Inspections.

Outputs:
To ensure DVSA inspects to a consistent standard.

Procedure General:
Inspection Manual pages will be updated in line with the Operating Procedures There are changes to the Required Standard

Procedure:
In order to provide parity with the current IVA N1 Inspection Manual with regard to the approval of Electric /Hybrid vehicles the section (69) attached as an annex to this memo is to be treated as part of the IVA M1Inspection Manual.

This change to the IVA M1Inspection Manual will come into effect immediately. The Inspection Manual will be updated at the next available opportunity.

The electronic IVA30 will be updated to reflect this change. Once incorporated the electronic IVA30 will become Revision22 (currently Revision 21).


Steven Kendall
Product Manager (Specialist Vehicle Tests and Approvals)

[turbosteve]

Its not just kit cars that are affected, I play Airsoft.. google it..

So, the EU have decided, along with some UK government, that anyone who plays, and has an airsoft gun (toy), will grow up to be a criminal, and buy a real gun.

So, the EU have introduced rules which govern the energy output.

These rules apply to guns which HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE MODIFIED, by spring, gas, etc. If the levels CAN be exceeded, by way of ANY modification, then they are deemed to be classed as FIREARM which entitles me to 5 years in jail for each gun.

How simple is this to achieve? VERY. I can simply change warm up a CO2 gas cartridge, or change a spring.. oh wait. I DONT HAVE TO.

If its the case that i could... then i'm in breach.

So, not just the kit world, but also other hobbies at risk, and with little knowledge, i could go from innocent to 5 years plus for firearms offences IF the law gets passed. This rule will decimate numerous UK business, and they dont care. UK legal teams are fighting to keep the UK on less strict terms, but its the EU. They do what they want.

[john]

Not wishing to stir up a nest but I'm for staying in. Yes there are issues and yes it can be frustrating but this isn't the time to go out alone. If we leave I bet Scotland calls a for a referendum and splits from us.

Plus I think the Brexit literature hasn't been a very nice or accurate campaign.

[Stiggy]

I have absolutely no interest in politics or suggested possible implications from the scaremongers but:
Fact is that if we wish to protect the UK kit car scene WE MUST VOTE LEAVE.
The rest of Europe only allow euro 6 emission cars to be registered.
When Brussels decide that we need to do the same in the UK then we are completely knackered.
It is only a matter of time before ALL bonkers EU car regs are applied to us.
Its not impossible to build euro 6 emission cars but it is cost prohibitive.

[kiwicanfly]

I am keeping out of this one however I was amused by the following story on the NZ radio.

Apparently a German national who had lived and worked in the UK for eight years is not entitled to vote but Ozi and Kiwi backpackers are!

[nate78]

I for one would like us to leave but, If that were the case the government will need to grow a pair and toughen up,
Close the doors, tighten the reins