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Post by Stiggy on Oct 10, 2016 10:02:04 GMT
The GOV word is;
Government Security Classification - OFFICIAL
Thank you for your continued correspondence, without prejudice to the previous communications you've received I'd like to provide you with the following which will also be communicated to our engineers & technical support staff.
Today I have agreed with DfT a stay of implementation for Reg 100 within IVA, in part by pressing the industries’ case. Therefore, DVSA & DfT can guarantee that this legislation will not take effect in IVA before 1 November 2016. However, you should continue to make plans to obtain a suitable test report by 1 November 2016 as vehicles submitted after this date may be required to demonstrate full compliance as part of the application evidence.
DVSA propose to leave the N1 manual unchanged & to update the M1 manual imminently. This will allow stakeholders to familiarise themselves with the impending requirements ahead of implementation.
Notwithstanding all of the above our engineers will continue to make necessary & suitable assessments under the general construction section to ensure that any systems are safe, secure & installed without interference to other components under the requirements of IVA.
so in theory you could apply before Nov 1st, fail and re test within 6 months.
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 10, 2016 12:17:26 GMT
can i really submit it with no batteries or propulsion system( i'll have to push it into the centre) no rear lights surely that's just going to pee them off and what is my chance of getting a test date by then end of october
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Post by Stiggy on Oct 10, 2016 13:21:39 GMT
just trying to help
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 10, 2016 14:35:48 GMT
No I understand Stuart and i am grateful for your help its just logistically almost impossible for me to do this now and also I don't feel happy with this and it feels wrong to me. I realise I may be setting myself up for significant problems that maybe I could avoid but I will wait till i'm ready to go then contact iva authorities at the time and see what they say maybe they will still waive the certificate for me but if not i will try to get the certificate done as easily as possible and plea my case in the spirit of the single kit builder and challenge them to allow electric kit cars to be a possibility by making the process as easy as possible for single car builders and see what happens certainly the contents of r100.01 are fairly straitforward and i should be able to satisfy them easily enough.
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 10, 2016 19:42:03 GMT
So i have been looking in more detail at 100.01 and most of it relates to isolation testing of the high voltage components and ensuring eqipotentiality (if that is the word) if there is a fault and using hv labels and orange cables so all fine , however this requirement might be difficult to achieve :
When leaving the vehicle, the driver shall be informed by a signal (e.g. optical or audible signal) if the vehicle is still in the active driving possible mode.
any ideas for how i can tell if the driver leaves the vehicle without a door i guess soem kind of infrared detector ?? or something on the safety harness buckle ??
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Post by Stiggy on Oct 10, 2016 19:44:48 GMT
seat pad switch
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 10, 2016 19:50:14 GMT
Hey cool something like this : www.kdrseating.com/products/view.php?id=134&c=14I like it and it says you only need to warn the driver not actually switch the contactors off, otherwise i worry you would scratch your bum and the car would stop.
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Post by kiwicanfly on Oct 11, 2016 7:59:42 GMT
What I still find amazing is the suggestion that certification will cost up to six thousand pounds (deliberately spelt out to get the full taste of that figure).
What are they actually proposing needs to be done to warrant that kind of money? At the end of the day electricity is not magic so the majority of safety concerns should surely be easy to address.
EG adequate gauge wiring, suitable interlocks, securing everything in place, venting for gasses etc.
Regarding the active driving mode, whats to stop a traditional car being left with the engine running whilst the driver gets out? Although I appreciate they are only asking for a warning and I have that on my daily driver but no requirement in the Rocket.
I do agree with, and applaud, your desire to submit only when complete despite the added cost that might occur. You know you are not ready, and whilst you could play a swift one by submitting early knowing you will fail you want to only do what you are comfortable with so good on you (although I do also appreciate what Stuart was trying to do as well). Certainly you will be a test case and anyone thinking about going electric should watch this space.
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Post by Stiggy on Oct 11, 2016 9:29:01 GMT
I await a firm quote as I have just started designing an EV for a client. My understanding is that checking a car and issuing a certificate does not cost £6000. The costs come in as they test and then write a detailed report and pay VCA to have the tests witnessed and the report validated. The test criteria is "fluid" at the moment and although the 1958 document is useful it is not conclusive at this stage. Furthermore the fact that we are to be guinea pigs means potential for fail and therefore a £6000 bill for a report that shows non compliant issues and no certificate at the end until we go jump through more hoops. R100.01 is less onerous than .02 but still contains areas that are open to interpretation and therefore potential for submitting a vehicle that will be considered non compliant. Hope the retest is not 6k! So bearing in mind Nov 1st is the cut off date, anyone leaving an application until after could be considered as a martyr, or a hero Perhaps the experience that I will be going through on behalf of my client in the next few months will help pave the way for Jack and Co. I will start a thread in the tech section in due course.
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Post by carlyd on Oct 11, 2016 9:41:52 GMT
can i really submit it with no batteries or propulsion system( i'll have to push it into the centre) no rear lights surely that's just going to pee them off and what is my chance of getting a test date by then end of october The Nottingham IVA test centre is very quiet just now so if you called them you are probably looking at next week for a test. But first you have to go through the registration process which takes about 3 weeks.
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 11, 2016 18:34:03 GMT
So we have had a long chat about this at home and have seriously considered trying to get a test booked in by end of october i could take soem time off and get as much done as possible in the next couple of weeks etc but we have decided not to do this as jack is an important part of this project and he is very busy with UCAS application and visiting Uni's at the moment and we want to complete this together, so we will carry on at our current rate and get ready for early next year.We remain hopeful (whilst i understand the need for ars* covering) that the representatives at the testing bodies will see us for the enthusiastic amateur EV car builders that we are and help us through the hoops to a safe certified build without too much unnecessary expense or red tape.
Stuart, if you can lead us through this over the next few months with the build for your client then that would be great hopefully our experience will help future EV kit builders as well.
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Post by kiwicanfly on Oct 11, 2016 18:48:41 GMT
One hopes also that the relevant people realise that making the process prohibitively expensive will kill future builds and, therefore, business.
Fair return for effort required of corse.
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 11, 2016 20:06:28 GMT
So meanwhile we have been working on main the high voltage enclosure : Everything is here except main feed from the battery coming in at the top splitting through the 2 main contactors and leaving to the bottom and the two returns from the controllers through separate 400 amp fuses to leave to the battery return at the top each return from the controllers has a separate 400amp 300vdc fuse HV bus supplying low amp fused supplies to pre-charge circuits and DC-DC converter and charger. pre-charge circuit relays and resistors the resistor bolts in the enclosure wall are nylon main contactors supplying feed to motor controllers mini contactor supplying 30amps for DC-DC converter to keep 12v battery charged, the switch for this is the only earth in the enclosure and connects to the chassis under the false floor of the enclosure to minimise possible contact to earth with HV. the 12v connectors from the 12v controller circuits to control contactors and pre-charge circuits and ksi the ignition circuit to switch on the DC-DC converter when ignition is on, these terminals will be covered in the final fit. The motor controllers have large array of low voltage I/O which we haveve terminated in this aluminium enclosure from here there are connections to the HV box above and the front of the car to the throttle, key switch reverse switch tacho and speedo warning lights and emergency cutoffs
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Post by jacksdad on Oct 20, 2016 8:15:04 GMT
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Post by jake on Oct 20, 2016 20:11:48 GMT
That looks like a good solution. I assume the chain drive unit is mounted rigidly, and not on any type of rubber mounts......? I'm in the process of making a front suspension brace bar using a similar design to yours cupping both sides of the mount. I'm using a turnbuckle adjuster (to add some tension) eBay item 331758665459. Some 22mm OD x 3mm wall thickness tube, and I was lucky enough to find some 3mm U channel with a 50mm ID cut to 30mm wide to cup the mounts. I'll post some pictures when done.
Jake
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