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Post by casesensitive on Jul 4, 2018 13:48:55 GMT
Hey, TL;DR what is an easy to learn and cheap software package that'll output DXF/DWG? this is a slightly off-topic one, but I need to get some pieces made for my replacement engine mounts. I had submitted drawings to a guy I found on Facebook called Andrew Chilton of Chilton Motorsport in May, however he shut down his bracket making business last week  I submitted requests to 3 places that advertise laser-cutting services, 1 didn't get back to me, 1 quote €120 to take my sketch and make it into CAD format they'd need, plus the price of the parts, and the 3rd said they might do it for me, but I'd have to create my drawing myself. Excited by this, I set up a SketchUp account and started working through their tutorials. It was about 3-4 hours into this that I thought to check with the CAD people what formats they supported: DXF or DWG came back the answer. Does SketchUp support these? Yep, but for £695 or £120 a year. As I'm only likely to need to make this part and maybe one other, this is more than I'd hoped to pay really. So, anybody got a recommendation for a reasonably straightforward 3D program, ideally with some decent tutorials available either on Youtube or on their site, that's < €100 to buy outright, or on a cheap monthly sub? Or do you know anyone who will take my scribbles and make them into mild steel? I'm thinking carlyd or sammy might be able to point me in the right direction? |
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Post by carlyd on Jul 4, 2018 14:12:34 GMT
I was looking into Solidworks for the design software. I own a software company myself so know a thing or two about software but Solidworks looks like a very steep learning curve and is very expensive. I have not had the time to really look into this recently due to work commitments but I will revisit this to design my chassis. When I spoke to Arch Motors (they build the Ariel Atom and Nomad chassis) they suggest a technical drawing as they don't work off software when creating the chassis. kiwicanfly is probably the person to chat too as he modeled the rear suspension of the Rocket in Solidworks. If you do find some software that's easy to use please post it on here  |
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Post by casesensitive on Jul 4, 2018 16:58:44 GMT
With my enormous experience of 1 3D app (not counting playing with 3D on my Amiga 1200 25 years ago), SketchUp seems genuinely intuitive, and there's a web version of it, so you can run it in any browser. Stick the video tutorials on in one monitor, Sketchup in the other and crack on. Ultimately, I need to make a file to send to A Man, who'll send me 5 pieces of steel in an envelope I can weld together, so I have to be about to save in a universal-ish format they can feed to the big Frickin Laser, which means DXF/DWG. STL seemed like it ought to have been a universal option, but the laser guys said no. If it were €100 I'd buy it without hesitation, even though that'll increase the cost of my engine mount hugely. I'm a software guy, so I don't mind paying for something that hugely exceeds my needs if it checks all the required boxes. £695 (or £120 a year) is a big chunk of change, and while I'd consider the annual sub, I'd prefer to get something I can buy once and not worry about a mysterious CC charge in July 2019. The AutoDesk options are comically expensive for a hobbist, €2k a year? For a professional who does nothing else, grand, but even Photoshop studio is less than that. |
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Post by tojeiro on Jul 4, 2018 21:08:05 GMT
Are you using windows or Mac. I use a Mac and there is two options.
1. Find an old download Sketchup 7, this was not web based and still had option to export dxf file.
2. With current web based SketchUp version, prepare your drawing then, on a Mac.
Top View
Parallel Projection
Export 2d
PDF will export a vector pdf
When printing to “save as PDF”. Tick the “Vector Printing” Box in the print dialog.
Import the PDF into Inkscape (free open source, windows or Mac) then:
File
Save As
Desktop Cutting Plotter (AutoCAD DXF R14) (*.dxf)
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Post by kiwicanfly on Jul 5, 2018 0:31:08 GMT
I use Solidworks but it is provided by work  so costs me nothing. Not sure of the initial cost but the annual maintenance fee is around NZ$2k however you don't need to keep that up, it keeps on working. The only issue is that you cant open drawings from newer versions of the software. However you can download the package and it will run fully functional for 30 days which would work for a one off project, a good chunk of time to do the tutorials and a couple of hours to produce your file. File formats - dxf is a universal 3d format, dwg is an autocad 2d format, both are suited to laser/water cutting and routers etc. STL is a 3d format so not suited to 2d machines but dxg/dwg can be generated from them, stl is more for 3d printers. IGES/Parasolid are universal 3d formats which nearly all 3d packages can take in. Then you have software specific formats such as those produced by Solidworks, many are interchangeable and the software converts to their own native format. The main advantage to working in good 3d software is that you are drawing the finished item so it is easy to visualize then you can carry out simulated testing for stress etc and you can assemble parts and simulate movement plus many other tricks. However to answer your specific question there are lots of 2D packages around, one trick is to find one that 'is part' of a more expensive top of the line package, this usually means the simpler features are sound. Often this is offered as a free teaser to hook you in. I have not used it but a look at this from Solid Edge, I know Solid Edge is up there in 3d though. www.plm.automation.siemens.com/plmapp/education/solid-edge/en_us/free-software/free-2d-cadIn truth the advantage of 3d for sheet metal is that after drawing the item you can then unfold it to make it flat. This allows easy visualistion of the finished item and adds bending allowances automatically. For anyone building something like, say, a chassis carlyd you can produce cut lists and single tube models from the software with all the mitres and angle perfect. This is why the big packages cost so much because the save thousands in the critical detail work. |
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Post by cricky on Jul 5, 2018 1:36:17 GMT
I have heard good things about Fusion360. It’s free for educational use if you can justify that. (Also 30 day free trial).
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Post by casesensitive on Jul 5, 2018 9:47:03 GMT
Are you using windows or Mac. I use a Mac and there is two options. 1. Find an old download Sketchup 7, this was not web based and still had option to export dxf file. 2. With current web based SketchUp version, prepare your drawing then, on a Mac. Top View Parallel Projection Export 2d PDF will export a vector pdf When printing to “save as PDF”. Tick the “Vector Printing” Box in the print dialog. Import the PDF into Inkscape (free open source, windows or Mac) then: File Save As Desktop Cutting Plotter (AutoCAD DXF R14) (*.dxf) Thanks tojeiroI have a Macbook pro as my personal laptop and a swish Dell XPS with Win10 for work, so both work. I did download SketchUp Make 2017 (?) but i've read it doesn't have DXF, I'll look out for the other one someplace. If I export my pieces as 2D, I suppose I can always just tell them how thick the various sections are and manually add the 'fold 90* here' instructions. |
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Post by casesensitive on Jul 5, 2018 9:55:57 GMT
I have heard good things about Fusion360. It’s free for educational use if you can justify that. (Also 30 day free trial). I did go through the registration process, and it's free for 'educators' too (I was and am sometimes still a trainer) but I messed up on the 'usage' screen, there two choices; use just on your machine, or use on your machine and in college labs, I went conservative and selected the former... which locks you out of downloading it! Not sure what verification happens after that, but that account associated with my primary gmail is permanently junked! Just as well I have other gmails. edit: new registration, select the right option, grit your teeth through the bit where they ask for an on-campus address and phone number, and presto, Fusion360 download. Thanks! edit: eh, let me register as an educator, told me I'd have 3 years, and sent me 3 different 2FA authentication texts, but the countdown to my 30 day trial has started anyway. Feck. |
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Post by casesensitive on Jul 5, 2018 10:59:29 GMT
File formats - dxf is a universal 3d format, dwg is an autocad 2d format, both are suited to laser/water cutting and routers etc. STL is a 3d format so not suited to 2d machines but dxg/dwg can be generated from them, stl is more for 3d printers. In truth the advantage of 3d for sheet metal is that after drawing the item you can then unfold it to make it flat. This allows easy visualistion of the finished item and adds bending allowances automatically. For anyone building something like, say, a chassis carlyd you can produce cut lists and single tube models from the software with all the mitres and angle perfect. This is why the big packages cost so much because the save thousands in the critical detail work. Yep, I figured you'd unpack it in about 10 minutes :-) Cheers for the file format disambiguation, that's really useful. I have a handful of bits that I might like to get fabbed; I haven't given up on my Aventador-style airplane missle-switch cover start button to go with my other supercar affectation idea :-)  |
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Post by carlyd on Jul 5, 2018 11:15:14 GMT
I am going to look into Solidworks again as I intend to design the chassis, suspension etc, I also want to experiment with 3D printing things like the speedo housing as I want to keep all of the buttons and indicators etc around the dash/speedo so that will all be custom.
I am also looking to design panels as I want to have a real professional finish and I am rubbish with fibreglass and large 3D printing could be an option. My build will be a one off, so I don't want to go to the trouble of making molds to have panels made so designing it all in one piece of software would be good.
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Post by kiwicanfly on Jul 5, 2018 22:01:48 GMT
If I export my pieces as 2D, I suppose I can always just tell them how thick the various sections are and manually add the 'fold 90* here' instructions. That's pretty much how you do it. Note you can't have varying thicknesses in one item. Aso send a pdf with critical dimensions on it as well. Most laser cutting file imports strip off notes and dimensions so they don't know the exact size of your part without the info. If you don't you may end up with a part cut twice as big as you need because you forgot to advise that the xf was at 2x scale  |
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Post by kiwicanfly on Jul 6, 2018 1:46:52 GMT
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Post by carlyd on Jul 6, 2018 7:17:15 GMT
That Aston Martin is amazing, I'll bet it's very lightweight too. I have had a quick look on t'interwebs and found a 3D printer and prototyper near me which is ideal as they will print one item rather than having a minimum order, I have also found a lazer cutting and CNC machining company so I am going to design it all in software and have many of the parts made professionally. I guess it all comes down to price. I am looking at some video tutorials for solidworks on Udemy. Udemy.com is great with full instructional videos for around £10 on virtually any subject. I have used it a few times for tutorials on programming languages and highly recommend it. |
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Post by casesensitive on Jul 10, 2018 8:05:24 GMT
Ok, that took me far too long, but I have got it done.  Now, export formats for the whole model are .f3dm .igs, .sat, .smt, .stp Laser man wanted DWG, I assume I have to take each piece and export each separately? On the 6th attempt, I made the large brackets using the sheet metal mode, so they can be unfolded for cutting, wonder if they'll need it that way? edit: Looks like to export to DWG you have to log into myhub.autodesk360.com/ in the browser, request a conversion 'job' and they mail you the link. Ok... knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-export-a-design-in-Fusion-360.htmlDWG for anyone else with the same problem (not all that likely) |
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Post by p5curly on Jul 10, 2018 14:59:48 GMT
With solid works we save them as a dxf file as a flat pattern so our cutting software can convert it to be laser cut  |
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so costs me nothing.
