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Post by erik on Jan 29, 2017 6:58:57 GMT
If any builder experienced overheating whether on the road, or in traffic queue what did you do to fix the problem. A larger capacity custom made radiator would be very expensive. If anyone wants to add their comment on this topic I would appreciate the input. Thanks Roger Worcester, Massachusetts I've seen some used an additional fan switch to turn the fans. I do not recall anyone installed a bigger rad so I guess it's sound. However, do imprint engine oil cools down way slower as cooling water. turning on the fans manually is not going to prevent oil temp reduction soon. When the oil gets too hot it could break the engine which R1 track bikes experienced. The expansion bottle is just a tool to remove trapped air in a cooling system routing where the original cooling sytem has not been designed for. When this is set up properly it is not going to help you cooling down the water it's surface is too small to dissipate heat. br, Erik
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Post by roger32849 on Jan 29, 2017 13:50:15 GMT
I have done about all I can do to insure the cooling system works. The fans, the radiator lines, and auxillery tank are all installed and should keep the engine within a normal temperature range. With the radiator lower than the engine, the Auxillery tank is necessary to keep air bubbles out of the system and to "burp" the system in an initial fill. A cooler engine equals cooler oil. Anyway, this TR1KE will not be a track car. Running any engine at its upper limit can cause a long list of problems, among them them are overheating issues, oil breakdown, metal stress. I figure if I drive like I always do, the engine will operate as it was designed without any issues. However, I like the idea of a cooling fan override switch. It might be worth installing.
Thanks for the input Erik
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by davej98002 on Jan 29, 2017 18:40:39 GMT
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Post by roger32849 on Jan 29, 2017 19:57:43 GMT
If I have over heat issues, the way to go for me will be to probably add a 3 or 4 pass radiator. The single pass in the stock Yamaha R1 may be good for OEM purposes. When you add 300 pounds of extra weight and a driver and passenger then the dynamics have changed and the cooling system has not. The installation of a REAR mounted radiator might be what the doctor ordered. Not only a rear radiator, but a larger capacity all polished aluminum and custom made aluminum shroud and cooling fan..... all on the rear.... (maybe)
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Post by edvb on Jan 29, 2017 20:16:25 GMT
The multicore radiator probably will be a great approach if you have heating issues.
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Post by roger32849 on Jan 29, 2017 20:18:04 GMT
I had to make a small modification to my clutch pedal. I had to put the dogleg in the cable end of the pedal. This compensates for extra length I had in my cable. It works great and all I need is to install the bolt for the stop. I had to make the clutch cable (pedal end) shoe, or mount (what ever you choose to call it) I h ad a little round stock aluminum and just cut it down on a lathe then milled one side of it flat so it would not rotate every time I pushed the pedal. The cable end was drilled and threaded 8mmx1.25 pitch. The end that faces the pedal was drilled through then cut down to 7/16" and threaded. I installed a nut and washer to hold it in place. I have to wait for the paint to dry on the pedal then I will install it tomorrow. All is good so far. Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by roger32849 on Jan 31, 2017 23:33:09 GMT
If anyone has experienced fuel tank leaks or broken tabs, please contact me...
Thanks
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by Stiggy on Feb 1, 2017 10:50:27 GMT
Tall tanks are susceptible to high loads on the base mounts and I would recommend that 2 straps be fitted that clamp the tank to the rear bulkhead from the floor, L shape if you will. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a builder had used double sided tape to stick a tank to the bulkhead BUT a drip of petrol would soon relieve it of its stickyness.
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Post by roger32849 on Feb 1, 2017 12:36:07 GMT
Since I have a considerable investment in my fuel tanks, mods and powder coating, I am reluctant to go through another modification that would again require additional rework. The true answer is to beef up the mounts at the bottom of each tank and add a means to secure it from the top such as a threaded stud for an "L" bracket. This should be done from the source manufacturer along with doing away with the open vent and adding a rollover vent check valve as well as adding a barbed fitting to secure fuel lines to the tank.
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by roger32849 on Feb 2, 2017 19:34:30 GMT
Here is where I am an the fuel tanks. I have given this a little thought and am STILL examining my options. The most economical thing to do is leave things as they are and strengthen the mount tabs and proceed as normal. This would be okay but it requires the tanks to be connected running lines near the exhaust manifold. This disturbs my chi a bit.
The next step is to remove the two (2 gallon) fuel tanks in the engine bay and then install a fuel tank behind the drivers position on the left. I already have a 3.9 US gallon surge tank with OEM fuel pump behind the passenger seat on the right. The additional tank the exact same size would yield a total of (about) 7.8 US gallons. What this does is open the engine area up for air movement to aid in cooling. It also moves the C/G forward a bit and if there is a fuel leak from filling or loose connection it reduces the likelihood of a fuel related fire. A fabricated tank would cost about $350.00, powder coating another $60.00.
Other mounting options would be to add a tank forward of the passengers footrest. I have not considered this yet. It would add a lot of additional weight up front, but there is space to install it there.
Okay... If I go with a new tank behind the drivers seat, I am looking into relocating the radiator in the right rear location and adding a functional air scoop.... the radiator I am looking at is an aftermarket aluminum racing model. It is made for the 2000 and 2001 YZF R1 yamaha. Since it is aluminum, it would polish up and look nice and could be mounted high enough to do away with the burp tank.
So far, these are just brain storm ideas. If you have any suggestions to add, please feel free to add them. I am very interested in any information regarding rear mounted radiators on the TR1ke.
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by Stiggy on Feb 2, 2017 20:45:44 GMT
Moving the tanks to the correct side of the "fire wall" is a great place to start. Securing them by bolting down, (not up as per the build guide) is also a great move. Top mount or strap, essential. COM shift is in the right direction.
Please see Rocket "Important builder guidance notes", sticky at the top. It is suggested that a fuel pump inertia switch is fitted.
A filler cap with a key attached to the ignition key is also a good idea. A requirement for IVA but not for the MSVA trike test. No idea why, we can all drive off chucking fuel behind us.
Do remember though that if you bolt the tank to the floor then what if it leaks. Fuel around your feet? Maybe a bund is required and a cover as per IVA, this is a vehicle afterall not a motorcycle.
Radiator upfront in direct air flow has to be the best place, the pipes feeding it add to the water volume and are therefore potentially cooling assistance.
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Post by erik on Feb 2, 2017 22:20:55 GMT
Radiator upfront in direct air flow has to be the best place, the pipes feeding it add to the water volume and are therefore potentially cooling assistance. It's a significant additional volume which could not dissipate heat as well when isolated and could hold temp range at a higher range for a longer time. Hiding the pipes in a centre tunnel does not add extra cooling because the air in the tunnel acts like isolation buffer if without turbulence. The material of the pipes (alu tubing vs rubber hose) is a factor too. pipes in the open air may cause severe skin tissue damage if not adressed properly which needs proper care. good luck!
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Post by Stiggy on Feb 2, 2017 22:51:12 GMT
Sorry to have to disagree Erik. I do appreciate your opinions and help offered but we must observe scientific facts.
Heat will be dissipated from the uninsulated pipes in the tunnel. The heat within the pipes will heat the cooler air around the outside of the pipes until it reaches the same temp, the air will then dissipate heat through the tunnel wall in search of cooler air.
However air is not a good conductor of heat so to improve heat loss in the pipes we could consider the convection principle. Cutting holes in the floor of the tunnel and fitting a long vent grille to the top should help cooling. Heat rises.
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Post by roger32849 on Feb 3, 2017 1:34:45 GMT
Let me see. If the engine has an OEM radiator and cooling fan(s) and the engine is running at an idle, it should not overheat. The fans will induce cooling air flow should the thermal switches call for the fans to come on. When the engine is under a load and moving through the air, it again should not overheat (if everything is working as designed) The actual location of the radiator is not as important as the cooling dynamic surrounding the placement of it. As long as the radiator is placed where air flow is unobstructed the engine should not overheat. Introduce a larger capacity radiator and the cooling efficiency improves. The extra cooling capacity outlined above by the aluminum cooling tubes dissipating latent heat is valid. If you move fluid from the heat source it will cool traveling through the piping. You can do "heat loss calculations" on this but the best way is to realize the amount of heat loss isn't sufficient enough to calculate or count as a solid cooling factor to keep the engine within limits. If cooling fins were added, then you could say, "YES" it would a cooling factor much as the heater coil in your car would help cool the engine.
So, the bottom line to this as I see it is to keep the radiator up front as in traditional design manufacturing. However, if there were enough induced air through an oversized radiator (thicker/more coil passes) it would be as effective placed close to engine as I outlined in a previous post. The Eco-Exo works great with the radiator place behind the bulkhead.
The only way to find out is try and succeed or fail miserably. Heck, even Thomas Edison knew 1200 ways not to make a light bulb. I figure I could find out how not to cool an engine at least once... :-)
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
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Post by erik on Feb 4, 2017 7:27:58 GMT
Sorry to have to disagree Erik. I do appreciate your opinions and help offered but we must observe scientific facts. Heat will be dissipated from the uninsulated pipes in the tunnel. The heat within the pipes will heat the cooler air around the outside of the pipes until it reaches the same temp, the air will then dissipate heat through the tunnel wall in search of cooler air. However air is not a good conductor of heat so to improve heat loss in the pipes we could consider the convection principle. Cutting holes in the floor of the tunnel and fitting a long vent grille to the top should help cooling. Heat rises. You must have misread my post: It's a significant additional volume which could not dissipate heat as well when isolated and could hold temp range at a higher range for a longer time. Yes the pipes will heat the air, the air will heat the tunnel and the tunnel will dissipate the heat to the outside air. As I mentioned this will take longer to reduce heat out of the cooling system which has an significant increased volume as a negative side effect as well. The good thing is it should take a bit longer to overheat. Cutting holes and a vent grill may not be disired it could make the loom very sensitive for dirt and water and may cause copper corrosion.
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