I can see where the rear tire is lifting on the off side of the tread. The chassis roll out is quite pronounced as the driver lays into the corner. The MX-5 anti roll bar installation will be in the back of my mind as I proceed with the TR1ke project. I can also see where the aid of a good blacksmith might come in handy to have one custom built.
Thank you very much for the photo and for posting on my build. This is the sort of feedback I really appreciate.
That pic was taken with stock linear springs which are known to be weak. Progressive springs keep the chasis near level when cornering because they get stiff when pushed. For this reason ARB doesn't make sense to progressive (calculated and matched to suit the vehicle) because ARB is just as dumb linear axial counter acting torque spring as dumb as a linear wound spring it only affects a progressive spring on the negative side. Progressive wound springs do not need pre load (tension nut in it's loosest position) to serve to it's full calculated characteristic. Any pre tension on a spring is a restriction on it's characteristic.
My spring engeneer was very keen to drive my tR1ke on track for testing only the value of the beast was too high to risk damage on a track day. He is a car and motorcycle track instructor as well which is one of the few around I thrust sitting next to .
Your radiator position is very likely to overheat in summer there have been many reports over here of overheating both flat rad and bend rad. You need to spend every effort to cool your drive system and exhaust pipes which is prio #1 or your engine will break down or you need cooling down sessions. Because of this I'd highly recommend not to add a waste heat vent systemtunnels unless you are 100% sure the heat will be sucked through the radiator when driving and in queque or at stoplights. Coolimg fans have more trouble pushing the air through a vent as without one.For this reason I did not use a firewall in my Exo and made quite some mods on the tR1ke. The tR1ke is 100% thermal proof the fan did not turn on on 30Celcius. Oil temp is quite hard to push past 100celcius in urban environment and highway
Hot air from the vent is not an oncomfortable feeling to the lower torso when driving on the hottest day. On cold days it does prevent your lower torso from freezing tough your uper torso gets very cold. Don't mind the hot air under the bonnet the airflow does get widened and mixed with cooler air makes it only warm. NOT very warm just warm. Never had overheated feet.
As I mentioned in both my threads, The brake fluid reservoirs need to be in plain sight to see you are running out of brake fluid or you need to install a brake fluid level indicator switch and dash light wich appropriate warning symbol. If this is not, you will fai european leglisation rules. It is a safety feature which makes sense for your own personal safety. The brake fluid hose on your reservoir need to be approved for brake fluid as well take care you have this well documentated. double secure the hose both ends with T-wraps (2 at each end).
Make sure the brake lines on the brake caliper are routed properly to have a fulle bend and torsion free movement when turning the steering wheel to it's limits. This is a very weak point at many kitcars which basically should tear open your brake line at the caliper side fitting. I managed to do this with braided stainless steel brake lines on both my trikes. to check the torsion on the fittings have the brake lines not attached to the + fitting in centre of your car. rotate the steering wheel and watch if the fittings on the brake lines do rotate. if they don't your brake lines are stress free.
Forgot to note theat pic was taken with the original A-arms they had been modified on later versions.
I noticed Rogers tR1ke has standard springs, delighted to hear you have made some handling improvements Erik. I cannot tell from the picture I posted if the car has progressive springs or the longer bones as we cannot see them. It would be good for all trike builders if you posted the spec of your chosen springs. All coil springs get harder as they compress. They are rated at X lbs per inch of compression. The progressive ones you mention will have coils closer together at one end to keep the ride softer at the start of compression. This rate increases on a different scale to ordinary springs but can result in very stiff suspension on the limit. Interesting stuff but maybe this should be in the tech section instead of filling Rogers blog.
The build of my tr1ke has been thouroughly documented in my thread and it's easy to see the modifications I made because I try to post details and data previous builders have overseen which is my pocket change after reading their threads . I guess it's worth reading instead of serving it on a silver plate. The only thing which lacks on my tread is a pichture of proof the progressive spring is at it's loosest lenght. In this link you can see the progressive spring during the build (they have been purshased based on Edwin's experiences on these springs but he had the older A-arms on his version .My springs have been changed later after the tR1ke has been aproved road worthy. mevowners.proboards.com/thread/2141/tr1ke-build-netherlands-erik-4?page=21 Unfortunately no pics in my thread after aproval regarding shocks. You can see tough, the shocks have been set very stiff by adjusting the spring nut which should give one an indication how progressive spirngs work. The 2 first wounds of the spring should not be pressed together like thatbecause this is not functional in comfort! The roll cannot be as much as on your posted pic if you have some imagination. That's why I am not too keen on ARB.
disclaimer. Kevin is race track orientated and highly recommends ARB BUT he doesn't use progressive springs and he modified his spring settings by experience and testing. My Tr1ke is build for road use (long rack, large wheels, large steering wheel) and comfort but the shocks have been calculated for track use as well AND max comfort on road but never tested on track. The noticeable effect on progressive springs is that my fenders don't rattle on the tires anymore on poor streets and corners near like a go kart. Best money spend IMO.
I managed to get some work done today. I installed the right side tank and covered the electrics from the rear in wire loom. I also connected the cables for the throttle and clutch to the engine. I completed the mold work for the engine control module cover. I need to file the flanges so the are flat and squared off. The ECM simply snaps into place and is held there by the cover. I also connected the fuel injection hoses.. (yes they are for fuel injection) My next project is to install the surge tank and connect the electrics and all hoses. I also want to see if I can design a cover between the rear of the air filter to where the rear shock connects to the upper mount. it is a good place to fill in.
This is the area that I want to fill in. It will be a good place to stash the tip over switch and the atmospheric sensor. I am pointing at the supply and return fuel lines. Below is a longer shot of the same space.
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2017 11:14:05 GMT by roger32849
I have read the comments carefully. I see there are two schools of thought on the use of an ASB system and Lineral springs or going to progressive windings. The current springs I have installed are lineral and are the standard shock and spring set offered. The preload has been set to about mid range and I will evaluate which way to go when that part of my build comes around.
I also have brake fluid rated filler hoses from my reservoir to the master cylinders. The Massachusetts inspection system does not require them to be in plain sight, but it is a good idea. Mine can be seen with a little effort without removing the bonnet.
I appreciate the information on the overheating issues experienced by other TR1KE builders. I have two cooling fans installed on the radiator and made sure to insulate wrap my exhaust headers with titanium wrap. My engine is a 2005 and is equipped with an oil cooler. I am not sure if the older models have this system or not. I also installed an auxillery tank designed to eliminate air pockets and keep the antifreeze flowing. I have seen these tanks on almost every TR1KE on the forum. Temperatures here can soar up to 39°c (100°f) if overheating is an issue, I will need a larger thicker radiator.... $$$$
I have the experience of building my Eco-Exo-R and routing the brake lines were somewhat tricky. I ordered the same brake lines for the TR1ke. They are flexible stainless steel wrapped lines from HEL. I have a little slack in the lines to compensate for compression and tension. I have yet to secure the lines to the suspension, but that is approaching quite rapidly.
Like Stuart said above, any over the counter sway bar can be heated with a Mapp gas torch till it is cherry red and then bent to shape. We have done this many times and have not weakened the bar. If you support the bar as far out as possible it will work.
It does not really act as a spring in most sense, when the left wheel is pushed up, the bar rotates in its bushing and will pull the right wheel up somewhat to keep the platform level.
To act as a spring you would need to solidly mount it at the frame on both sides, but when mounted in rubber or a Poly bush it will rotate. True it will negate the Independent Front Suspension slightly.
I do like progressive wound springs. Just a challenge to get the two rates right.
Last Edit: Jan 28, 2017 2:27:11 GMT by davej98002: spelling
On two wheels now, one is a car tire. Looking for a 2F1R trike.
I am poor, please do not ask me for money or tools. I will ride 100 miles to help for a beer and sandwich.
With a total vehicle weight of around 750 pounds, linear style springs could possibly be dialed up enough on the preload to counter chassis roll. The cost would be measured in ride quality. I don't want a "go cart" but something I can ride long distances. Installing an anti-roll bar would not be impossible to do, just as installing a progressive spring such as Erik has would be quite easy. Before I do anything, I am going to do some serious testing. I have access to a rather large paved parking lot. It is in an industrial area and I could do some controlled turns without worrying about running off the road. I have to admit, I like the idea of progressive springs if I cannot achieve a good result by stiffening up what I have already. I will look through Eriks threads to see if he posted the spec's on his progressive spring set.
I would also enjoy hearing from other builders that have installed an anti-roll bar or have experimented with an ARB. I am curious how it was installed, what worked, what didn't.
I have been thinking about the overheating issues on the TR1KE that other builders have experienced. I am curious about the nature of the overheating and what was done to fix the problem. As I mentioned in earlier posts, I have a 2005 donor. The radiator is curved and came with dual cooling fans. I also installed a "carbing" tank to eliminate air in the system and to insure the water level in the engine is always maintained. There isn't exactly a free flow of air around the engine as it is installed on the TR1ke, but it isn't enclosed either.
If any builder experienced overheating whether on the road, or in traffic queue what did you do to fix the problem. A larger capacity custom made radiator would be very expensive. If anyone wants to add their comment on this topic I would appreciate the input.
It is time I had the accelerator connected. I had a piece of 1-1/4" square stock aluminum. I milled out, drilled out! Tapped out and in general made the under bonnet accelerator cable mount. I also had to fabricate the pedal. The one that came with the kit was cut off to short and the cable scrapped the cross member. I figured if I had to modify the pedal, I may as well make a new one that fits my foot angle and comfort zone. I need to get a return spring mount and I will be finished that project.
Roger Worcester, Massachusetts
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2017 11:17:47 GMT by roger32849