Non-standard engines/gearboxes

[boom]

I know this should belong in the Members Only section but as I'm not yet an owner I don't have access.

I'm considering the engine options for a Sonic to be completed before the end of this year. As I'm a born tinkerer and fettler, I feel compelled to deviate from the standard kit in some way. At the moment, I'm looking at some other engine options. Part of me is saying "don't be stupid, go with the standard one first then mod later" but I'm ignoring that for the moment.

Does anyone have any experience or ideas for fitting an engine/gearbox with rod shift (not cables)? Specifically the probelm is the selector shaft comes out of the back of the gearbox which is fine in a front engined car but not so good if the thing is behind you.

I need a way of connecting the push-pull-twist action to the lever. Any ideas? I've had a few ideas but want to keep backlash to a minimum for smooth and precise feeling. Does anyone make a kit to convert shaft type 'boxes to cable?

If I can get around this I might have a very interesting engine option.......

Thanks.

[dinosaurjuice]

Hello and welcome

rod change is a right pain. all engine movement (including vibration) is transferred. this can be reduced with stiff engine mounts, but in a lightweight car that just makes things uncomfortable.

what engine are you thinking of?

Will

[r16]

I did (and still do from time to time) think about fitting the engine and gearbox from an MR2. you will need to fab up some engine mounts to get it to fit and some custom drive shafts. im sure (95%) that its cable shift for the g box :-)
it is a big lump, so there is the chance that it just won't fit in the space at all??
worth a look i think
(3sgte has 255bhp standard and its easy to get 280!)

[s t o n i c]

The VAG 1.8 turbo unit might be interesting. 4 pot unlike the newer 5 pot focus turbos and they can be tuned to give a lotof power. Could go really mad and try one from an Audi and push engine into the passenger area - real mid engined. Mind you at this level you would want to make surethe chassis could be tuned for perfect handling and they are no longer an "economy project". Skys the limit. :-)

[boom]

Still not decided on engine choice. I'm looking for something small (no bigger package than Ford 1.8) and that pre-dates any complications with CAN etc. Cable shift is great and certainly makes things easier for building. Going a little older means no cat but rod shift!! Don't want anything too rare as spares may be an issue. Might have a look at Italian stuff (Alfa/Lancia) but it's not my field of expertise.

Having spent most of Monday night unable to sleep, I have come up with a fix for the mechanism, which should be comparatively simple. The problem is that in searching t'interweb for help I also found references to sequential shifters - and that's another challenge all together.

The VAG 1.8T is another option. It was fitted to loads in various forms so should be easy enough to find. Even entry level 150ps would be punchy (and there's a Quattro option too!)

[r16]

what about a 1.6 4age engine and box?

[dinosaurjuice]

i almost used the vag 1.8t, then decided 1.9tdi, then 1.6 tdci, and then finally 2.0tdci. probably should have used the 1.8t looking back...

if you retain the standard ecu and catalyst theres nothing to worry about regarding emissions etc.

will

[tr1kerfozzy]

What about the mazda v6 from the old 3 series cars, they're tiny!

[philbart]

Hi guys ... first post but have had my eye on getting a Sonic 7 for quite some time now ... am very jealous of you guys (Sonic and other alike), am impressed with the amount of people that have bothered to put in the hard work and be rewarded with such nice cars.

My question on this topic is as follows ... I REALLY want to build a Sonic 7 ... and am aware the kit is based on a Focus ... I am soon to replace my current car and am interested to know if I could use it as a donor instead ... it is a 1.8 mk2 Mondeo???
Now from what I can tell, it is the same Zetec lump as the Focus ... but how different the gear box, mounts and shafts are I am not sure?? Is there anyone on here that could shed any light on this for me ?.. surely they can't be that different .. can they ?

Cheers guys, keep up the hard graft :-)

Phil

[mattsmev]

Hello Philbart and welcome to this forum

I am no expert on ford engines but I do own a rocket, a Mk2 focus (52 plate) and a mondeo (09 plate). The engine mounts look quite different (but the focus is a 1.6 petrol the mondeo a 2.0 diesel so that's not unexpected). and in my case the steering and gearboxes also look very different

Talk to Stuart or the Guys at RTR for the full skinny, but i would check wheel track as that will give you a clue on drive shaft length
Check engine mounts, they may need to be sourced.
check steering column, I am certain that will be different.

I spent £900 on my donor, do the sums and see if using the engine out of your mondeo will save you more than that by the time you source (possibly) drive shafts, steering colum, gearbox and engine mounts

you are also meant to be able to source the radiator and rear callipers from the donor, but I ended up buying from new, I am sure the rad wont be usable, but the rear callipers may work. It may be worth an afternoon in a scrap yard with a camera comparing a focus with you mondeo

Cheers

Mattsmev

[r16]

hey mate,

iv had a look through the mk2 mondeo haynes manual and all the mondeos use the mtx75 gearbox rather than the 1b5 box... i don't know much about the 75 box as i have fitted the ib5 but im sure some one will know if it can be fitted or not.

as for the engine, it should be the same basic engine with mounts to fit the mondeo, and with a bit of luck you should be able to swap them for the focus engine mount and drop it in.

i would speak to stuart at mev, when i went to the mev workshop to order my rocket im sure he told me he tried to use a mondeo as a donor once and it was a PITA

[dinosaurjuice]

sell the mondeo and buy a focus is my advice.

something like this: cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-FOCUS-2002-CAT-D-SALVAGE-DAMAGE-REPAIR_W0QQitemZ300413406469QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item45f208cd05

will

[boom]

From memory, the IB5 gearobx is smaller and used in Fiesta and smaller engine Focus. The MT75 is a higher capacity box but is quite a bit heavier. It is used in larger engine Focus and Mondeo (petrol).

[philbart]

Hi guys, thanks all for your quick and in depth replies From what you have all said it looks like it would be more hastle than the small amout of money (if any) I would save by trying to use the mondeo. I think you may be right dinosaurjuice if say a Cat D focus are as easy to get hold of as a few bids on ebay for relatively cheep money ... I think it would save a lot of extra work (not that I'm against doing some hard work).

You guys have given me lots to think about, which I shall do ... I'll be keeping my eye on everyones builds ... keep posting the pictures ;D and hopefully I'll be back soon with a build diary of my own.

Cheers again guys, hope you all have a great Easter

[r16]

no problem mate, happy to help :-)

the only other thing to say is... GET ONE, GET ONE, GET ONE, GET ONE, GET ONE!!!! :-) lol